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FineWine
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  #2560813 9-Sep-2020 11:20
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nathan:.........

Imagine being in NZ in 2020, still with FPP, oscillating backwards and forwards between National and Labour

 

i normally don't read nathan's posts but the above caught my eye. If you are going to disparage New Zealand politics and our voting system please get your facts straight - oh that's right trolls don't fact check.

 

NZ hasn't had FPP (First Past the Post) since 1994 when we formerly adopted the MMP (member proportional representation) with the first election using this system being held in 1996. At the cessation of parliament this year we had 5 parties representative in parliament.

 

How many diverse elected political parties are in the US Congress ? Anyway our elected members are not as controlled by lobbyists as yours are and we are far more transparent.





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SaltyNZ
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  #2560857 9-Sep-2020 11:26
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FineWine:

 

NZ hasn't had FPP (First Past the Post) since 1994 when we formerly adopted the MMP (member proportional representation) with the first election using this system being held in 1996.

 

 

 

 

Our electorates votes are still FPP, and IMHO that should change to proportional like the Australian electorate vote system.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


 
 
 
 


Fred99
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  #2560858 9-Sep-2020 11:28
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freitasm:

 

The false dichotomy is showing. You claim to not support Trump but you say everything possible to discredit the only candidate with a chance of ending the chaos Trump brought to the country. 

 

 

Or defeatist in terms of the chaos being inevitable regardless of who wins (he did say he expects to see guillotines in Central Park IIRC).

 

Anyway, I'm confused.  Someone's an employee of a massive US-based global corporation and arguing that Americans voted for Trump because globalisation is bad for America, and Trump's by far the biggest "globalist" of any POTUS - with hotel/golf resorts dotted all over the planet.  Biden's a "bad" globalist because his son did some work as a consultant for an oil company or something.

 

Then I'm getting lectured that American voters aren't all idiots (which I've never said they were) and many or most voted rationally.  I give up - maybe it's time for a meme:

 


pab

pab
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  #2560861 9-Sep-2020 11:31
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FineWine:

If you are going to disparage New Zealand politics and our voting system please get your facts straight.


I took it as @nathan meant pretend for a second NZ was back in the FPP days and imagine how the government would look vs. the current MMP system. I doubt he believes we're still using FPP.

nathan
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  #2560865 9-Sep-2020 11:38
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ezbee:

 

This Atlantic article is so much in character that its quite believable. 
The Helicopters that could not fly in the rain, and bullet proof cars that could not resist raindrops.
Just diversions from his foiba of his hair not looking good in wind and rain.

 

For the sake of ...

 

Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/

 

 

At first glance the story sounds believable, with Trumps previous comments about McCain.  But its a dubious story, pushed by an agent for the deep state, and by the national security state bureaucracy, 60 days before an election.

 

There's no reason the believe this article is true, and lots of reasons why the Neocon war profiteers want your cognitive dissonance to believe this fake news.  This has got manufactured consent written all over it.

 

The story easily falls apart

 

  • Bolton, who wants Trump to lose, was there and says he never heard it, and would certainly have included that detail in his recent book, to sell more copies
  • Navy FIOA request proves the helo was cancelled by rain
  • The author Jeffrey “Saddam-Is-Allied-With-Bin-Laden” Goldberg - a paragon of journalistic integrity.  A tool of the national security state.  He's one of the planet's most unreliable reporters, having played the leading role - when agitating for invading Iraq war with Iran, with Syria, and convincing Americans that Saddam was allied with Al Qaeda & radical Muslims had invaded the US & South America.
  • Goldberg says his sources are anonymous, who refuse to identify themselves because "they don't want to be inundated with angry tweets and all the rest..."
  • It was also anonymous sources for the Steele Dossier, and the Russian Collusion, both of which have now proved to be fake news
  • Coincidentally, the story comes out the same day, Trump appoints a new ambassador to Afghanistan, a former soldier who also wants all troops out of Afghanistan, since its only been 20 years.  The first ambassador to do so.  Interesting.

The media didn't even try to verify anything, they just reprint anything that says orange cheeto man is bad.

 

Why would the media choose to gloss over the obvious political and economic benefits for the worst people in DC - war profiteers?

 

 





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


nathan
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  #2560874 9-Sep-2020 11:48
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freitasm:

 

The false dichotomy is showing. You claim to not support Trump but you say everything possible to discredit the only candidate with a chance of ending the chaos Trump brought to the country. 

 

 

I'd be happy to be shown where I presented a false dilemma.

 

Trump didn't bring chaos to this country, the Dem establishment trying to pull one over on voters, with Crooked Hilary, did.

 

Maybe "not Trump" is enough to (hypothetically) earn your vote, but not mine.  Politicians earn their vote from me, by enacting policies I support.  

 

Biden caused the chaos, how is he ending anything?  He's perpetuating the chaos by not listening to voters asking for change.

 

The Dems have nothing except not being as awful as Trump. In the midst of the worst pandemic in a century, they can't even bring themselves to advocate, even temporarily, for healthcare coverage for the 27 million who have lost it and 30 million who never had it.  Could be a way to guarantee a landslide

 

Biden doesn't need to win.  The Dems win whether Biden or Trump wins.

 

I wonder why the biggest voting bloc in America continues to grow

 

Americans who did not vote:

 

2000: 104,193,000 (49.7%)
2004: 97,204,000 (44.3%)
2008: 98,538,000 (42.9%)
2012: 106,013,000 (45.1%)
2016: 111,209,000 (44.5%)





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Fred99
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  #2560876 9-Sep-2020 11:59
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Damn - for a minute there I thought GZ had been hacked by kids from 4Chan.

 

 


 
 
 
 


quickymart
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  #2560879 9-Sep-2020 12:03
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The deep state? God, spare me.

 

Also - this was too funny to not go without posting:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/08/politics/donald-trump-labor-day-press-conference/index.html

 

 


Rikkitic
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  #2560880 9-Sep-2020 12:05
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The veil is starting to slip. He must be getting frustrated by the lack of traction here.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


nathan
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  #2560889 9-Sep-2020 12:15
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Rikkitic:

 

The veil is starting to slip. He must be getting frustrated by the lack of traction here.

 

 

Did you read any of my post?  It seems not.

 

But you'll blindly believe anything a neocon journalist, with anonymous sources, who has form for lies, and when those lies were exposed, he was promoted

 

 





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Rikkitic
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  #2560893 9-Sep-2020 12:17
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Yep, that sounds like frustration, all right.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


nathan
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  #2560894 9-Sep-2020 12:18
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quickymart:

 

The deep state? God, spare me.

 

 

Call it whatever makes you not have a mental breakdown :)

 

If you don't think that journalist is part of the problem, then I don't know what evidence would ever convince you.





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


nathan
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  #2560896 9-Sep-2020 12:19
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Rikkitic:

 

Yep, that sounds like frustration, all right.

 

 

 

 

when you can't play the ball, you play the man.

 

Please feel free to explain how The Atlantic article is true, and what I wrote above is fake, whenever you like...





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Rikkitic
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  #2560900 9-Sep-2020 12:24
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You are actually starting to become amusing, instead of just annoying.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


nathan
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  #2560905 9-Sep-2020 12:29
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Rikkitic:

You are actually starting to become amusing, instead of just annoying.


 



If you think about, you’re actually doing the exact same thing you hate Trump supporters for. Closed mind, already decided, and no amount of evidence would ever ever change your mind.
Believe a journalist who is known to publish lies, over the actual evidence.




populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


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