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Sideface
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  #2581107 8-Oct-2020 10:31
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The Washington Post - Trump doesn’t need Russian trolls to spread disinformation. The mainstream media does it for him.

 

today

 


Voting fraud, according to study after study, is rare. Mail-in ballots are, with a few exceptions, a safe way to vote.

 

But millions of Americans have come to believe something radically different: They think the Nov. 3 election could very well end up being stolen. ...

 

Where would they get such an idea?

 

Conventional wisdom might say it comes from false stories and memes spread on social media, originating from foreign troublemakers trying to influence the election results ...

 

Not so, says a major new study: It’s the American mainstream press that’s doing most of the dirty work.

 

Eager to look neutral - and worried about being accused of lefty partisanship - mainstream news organizations across the political spectrum have bent over backward to aid and abet Trump’s disinformation campaign about voting by mail by blasting his false claims out in headlines, tweets and news alerts, according to the Berkman Klein Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University.*

 



 

 

EDIT

 

 

*  "Our findings here suggest that Donald Trump has perfected the art of harnessing mass media to disseminate and at times reinforce his disinformation campaign by using three core standard practices of professional journalism. 

"These three are: elite institutional focus (if the President says it, it’s news); headline seeking (if it bleeds, it leads); and balance, neutrality, or the avoidance of the appearance of
[media] taking a side."

 





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Batman
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  #2581117 8-Oct-2020 10:40
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Say what we will, it's up to the American people to vote... It's going to be interesting




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


 
 
 
 


Fred99
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  #2581119 8-Oct-2020 10:46
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Batman: Say what we will, it's up to the American people to vote... It's going to be interesting

 

Apart from the American people who can't or won't vote for an assortment of reasons:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States

 

 


Gurezaemon
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  #2581167 8-Oct-2020 10:59
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nathan:

 

Biden hits his highest polling of the year for the electoral college - Trump 17% chance winning, Biden 83% chance.  Biden wins popular vote, by about the same margin as Obama beat McCain in 2008 - 7 - a borderline landslide

 

Trump has 3 problems.  Debates did him no favors.  COVID diagnosis did him no favors.  There is no time left 60% of people think his pandemic handling was useless = no sympathy

 

But race not over - 17% is not bad odds - Russian roulette, 1 in 6 shots in a revolver, but you have to go back to Truman 1948 for a comeback like Trump needs

 

 

I'm not sure how relevant polls are to be honest. We've all seen the shenanigans by the Republican party in which they state quite openly that they are planning to play as dirty as they can in order to steal the election, through gerrymandering, voter intimidation, discrediting results, etc. etc. etc.
The margin needs to be so overwhelming that even the most die-hard Trump supporter admits "Yeh, like it or not, they won it." If there is any wiggle-room, then 2021 is going to descend into a 2 bottles-of-port-wine hangover that makes 2020 look like a mild case of the dries.





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nathan
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  #2581175 8-Oct-2020 11:12
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Fred99:

 

Batman: Say what we will, it's up to the American people to vote... It's going to be interesting

 

Apart from the American people who can't or won't vote for an assortment of reasons:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States

 

 

 

More Americans were eligible to vote, and didn't, than voted for either Trump or Clinton.

 

the primary motive for nonvoting is not voter suppression but a belief that election outcomes do not matter because both parties are corrupt, or interested only in the lives of the wealthy.

 

I'm abstaining from voting, due to my dissatisfaction with the two major party candidates, my dissatisfaction is for both parties and the political system generally

 





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Batman
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  #2581199 8-Oct-2020 11:27
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Exactly. It's going to be interesting




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geekIT
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  #2581246 8-Oct-2020 11:41
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Sideface:

 

The Washington Post - Trump doesn’t need Russian trolls to spread disinformation. The mainstream media does it for him.

 

Voting fraud, according to study after study, is rare. Mail-in ballots are, with a few exceptions, a safe way to vote.

 

But millions of Americans have come to believe something radically different: They think the Nov. 3 election could very well end up being stolen. ...

 

Where would they get such an idea?

 

Conventional wisdom might say it comes from false stories and memes spread on social media, originating from foreign troublemakers trying to influence the election results ...

 

Not so, says a major new study: It’s the American mainstream press that’s doing most of the dirty work.

 

Eager to look neutral - and worried about being accused of lefty partisanship - mainstream news organizations across the political spectrum have bent over backward to aid and abet Trump’s disinformation campaign about voting by mail by blasting his false claims out in headlines, tweets and news alerts, according to the Berkman Klein Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University.

 

I'm having trouble understanding the fuss over this supposed 'mail-in voting fraud' business.

 

Surely, if the problem actually exists, the GOP stand to gain as much benefit from it as the DEMs.





'Ask not what you can do for your country: Ask what you can do for me'. Donald J.Trump. US President 2016 - 2020.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


tdgeek
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  #2581250 8-Oct-2020 11:50
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geekIT:

 

I'm having trouble understanding the fuss over this supposed 'mail-in voting fraud' business.

 

Surely, if the problem actually exists, the GOP stand to gain as much benefit from it as the DEMs.

 

 

I assume that when Trump loses, mail in votes and fraud are why. Invalid election. If he won, the voting system is great, it really is, I knew it would be [chime in hand gestures]


geekIT
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  #2581256 8-Oct-2020 11:58
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tdgeek:

 

geekIT:

 

I'm having trouble understanding the fuss over this supposed 'mail-in voting fraud' business.

 

Surely, if the problem actually exists, the GOP stand to gain as much benefit from it as the DEMs.

 

 

I assume that when Trump loses, mail in votes and fraud are why. Invalid election. If he won, the voting system is great, it really is, I knew it would be [chime in hand gestures]

 

 

Sure. But Biden could say the same, no?





'Ask not what you can do for your country: Ask what you can do for me'. Donald J.Trump. US President 2016 - 2020.

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #2581262 8-Oct-2020 12:08
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geekIT:

 

I assume that when Trump loses, mail in votes and fraud are why. Invalid election. If he won, the voting system is great, it really is, I knew it would be [chime in hand gestures]

 

Sure. But Biden could say the same, no?

 

 

Im not aware its normal to say that, as past candidates have been normal. Trump isnt


nathan
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  #2581264 8-Oct-2020 12:09
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geekIT:

 

I'm having trouble understanding the fuss over this supposed 'mail-in voting fraud' business.

 

Surely, if the problem actually exists, the GOP stand to gain as much benefit from it as the DEMs.

 

 

Dems are more likely to mail-in vote, Reps in-person.  So Trump is hoping to have election called "early" before all the Dem votes are counted.  The media happily sells election night coverage as an "event", when really the election results shouldn't be announced until the votes are counted, whether that is 1 week or 1 month.  But the expectation is 1AM Eastern time Nov 4, the next morning after election at the "latest"

 

This is also complicated by the Electoral College, where you're not voting for either presidential candidate, but for your states representatives to vote for them, and then in a lot of states, those electoral college voters are controlled by the Governor, who is a Dem or Republican party hack themselves (see Bush v Gore)

 

I think you're saying "isn't Trump shooting himself in the foot"? because older Rep voters are more likely to not in-person vote too.  Yes, and where this really effects GOP is all the down-ticket Republican elections on the same ballot, votes that also haven't been cast yet, because of Trumps fear tactics.  Elections that already would have been called for republican candidates.

 

Of course the Dems don't help themselves either, they had their own propaganda trying to convince us republicans control the postal system, that mailboxes being ripped out weren't either being repaired or normal operations, likewise mailsorting machines.  When the real problem is a hodge-podge of 50 different voting systems controlled by 50 states with different rules.  Votes that get thrown out, subjectively, because your "signature didn't match", because you put your ballot in the wrong envelope, inside another envelope, because you got it postmarked on the wrong day.  Some states have mail-in votes, some have absentee, its an unorganized mess.  Ballots that are not even allowed to have their outer envelope physically be opened until Nov 3

 

3M Americans now have already mail-in voted, 4 years ago just a few hundred thousand.

 

And all of that can be argued in court, if the election is close, and the Dems have a massive army of lawyers ready to go lead by Clinton's John Podesta

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


SaltyNZ
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  #2581269 8-Oct-2020 12:13
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SJB:

 

You can't build any house on shaky foundations. The US appears so divided to me that I don't believe there is any way back.

 

Dial back some of nathan's rhetoric, or possibly rage, and a lot of what he says rings true. I'm sure if I lived there I would feel a lot of the frustration he does.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be honest, if I lived there I'd be raging too. I don't begrudge @nathan that at all.





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


dclegg
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  #2581271 8-Oct-2020 12:15
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geekIT:

 

I'm having trouble understanding the fuss over this supposed 'mail-in voting fraud' business.

 

Surely, if the problem actually exists, the GOP stand to gain as much benefit from it as the DEMs.

 

 

Its quite simple. Mail-in voting fraud is a non-issue. This has been categorically proven already.

The problem with it (from the GOPs perspective) is that it makes voting easier for more people. It also ensures that those who have valid concerns about voting in person during a global pandemic still have a safe way to have their say. And we all know that if everyone who is eligible to vote in the USA actually votes, the GOP have no chance of ever getting elected.

So by getting this fraud narrative out there, people won't be surprised when Trump uses it to send an argument to the Supreme Court to steal the election that way. He, along with prominent GOP senators, has been signposting this course of action for weeks now. It's also why they are urgently trying to rush this new Supreme Court nomination through. To shore up the chances that this scheme will actually work.


Rikkitic
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  #2581283 8-Oct-2020 12:32
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I think Trump is confused. He seems to think he is running against Obama, not Biden.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


geekIT
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  #2581286 8-Oct-2020 12:37
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I agree with everything @dclegg just said.

 

However, I think that Biden should be making more of the possibility that Republicans will be going for fraudulent mail-in ballots, regardless of whether it's likely or not.

 

Actually, if he talks about it enough, it might encourage Trumpers to try it on (if they're not already doing it), in which case GOP voting fraud could easily be decried as the cause of a possible Trump victory.





'Ask not what you can do for your country: Ask what you can do for me'. Donald J.Trump. US President 2016 - 2020.

 

 

 

 


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