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  Reply # 1498554 24-Feb-2016 14:58
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Rikkitic:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

Unlike the majority of commenters I have both worked in parts of the government where I perhaps had access to more information about this sort of thing than most do and also lived through a terrorist campaign that saw death and destruction on the streets of the country I was living in for decades.

 

 

 

 

That must have been very traumatic for you. It explains your ideas, but it doesn't make them right. If someone tries to smash me, I will do what I can to defend myself, but I will not, like that ignorant woman did, refuse to sit next to a Sikh on the plane just because he looks different. I will not judge people on the basis of their appearance and I will not refuse to give strangers the benefit of the doubt. Are you suggesting that if someone gets beheaded in the street, or a shopping plaza gets blown up, that we should all grab guns and rush out and start mowing down everyone that we think might look like a Muslim? What are you suggesting?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but it's human nature to discriminate, especially based on fear. You can be aware of it, and manually override it, but if you didn't have the ability to discriminate you wouldn't be safe to be by yourself (Nor would you be able to tell one person from another). 

 

Logic is the thing that helps people understand that their fear is irrational, but to suggest you never do it subconsciously, simply isn't correct. 

 

I do not believe for a second that geektastic is suggesting that a beheading causes everyone to kill everyone else from the same race as the original offender, and I think you KNOW that.

 

I think he is saying that if someone identifies themselves as part of a terrorist group, they are to be treated in accordance with what the government or acting leadership of their community has decided is appropriate. In some countries that is death, others, it's prison, expulsion, or exclusion.


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  Reply # 1498560 24-Feb-2016 15:05
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Just to be clear, I do NOT hate Americans. That would be as stupid as hating Muslims. People are people, all over the world. What I do hate are some of the actions of their government and military, and most of their truly dumb foreign policy decisions. I also don't care much for the way some of their rapacious corporations try to control behaviour in other countries. Other than that, there is nothing wrong with them at all. Americans remind me of oversize lovable untrained Labrador puppy dogs that want to jump all over you and plant big wet kisses on you while getting their muddy paws everywhere.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1498564 24-Feb-2016 15:07
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networkn:

 

 

 

I think he is saying that if someone identifies themselves as part of a terrorist group, they are to be treated in accordance with what the government or acting leadership of their community has decided is appropriate. In some countries that is death, others, it's prison, expulsion, or exclusion.

 

 

Okay, that I can agree with.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1498567 24-Feb-2016 15:10
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gzt:

ISIS is pitching to Richard. Richard gets power over other human beings, some new friends, a company car, regular salary, and a wife +optional sex slaves and it is all perfectly legal!

 

Which is exactly why my plan is genius. It reminds him that in fact what he gets is a short ride to a messy death, drowning in his own blood.

 

Back in the real world, though - apparently ISIS are starting to find it tough to find enough money to pay all their loyal holy fighters these days, so that's nice to hear.





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  Reply # 1498589 24-Feb-2016 15:19
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SaltyNZ:

 

gzt:

ISIS is pitching to Richard. Richard gets power over other human beings, some new friends, a company car, regular salary, and a wife +optional sex slaves and it is all perfectly legal!

 

Which is exactly why my plan is genius. It reminds him that in fact what he gets is a short ride to a messy death, drowning in his own blood.

 

Back in the real world, though - apparently ISIS are starting to find it tough to find enough money to pay all their loyal holy fighters these days, so that's nice to hear.

 

 

 

 

Oo sounds good, I might enroll!





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gzt

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  Reply # 1498590 24-Feb-2016 15:21
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Geektastic:

Rikkitic:


Geektastic:


When they have blown up the first target in NZ or beheaded the first off duty soldier, it will be interesting to see whether your flippant dismissal remains....



Give it a rest mate. Either you have principles or you don't. My beliefs are not going to be dictated by some fanatic with a bomb. I don't care if they are breaking down my door. I know the difference between right and wrong.


 



 


OK well we will look forward to seeing how they stand up in due course.


I have principles too - if someone is visiting violence on me, my country etc then they are fully deserving of far more in return until such time as they see the error of their ways.


The sanity of this approach depends on how you will define 'someone' and 'they'.

For Trump this is easy. Muslims!

Fail.

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  Reply # 1498613 24-Feb-2016 15:58
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This analysis in the Washington Post today says Trump has all but won the republican race already..

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/23/donald-trump-is-on-course-to-win-the-1237-delegates-he-needs-to-be-the-gop-nominee/

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1498616 24-Feb-2016 16:03
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networkn:

 

I think he is saying that if someone identifies themselves as part of a terrorist group, they are to be treated in accordance with what the government or acting leadership of their community has decided is appropriate. In some countries that is death, others, it's prison, expulsion, or exclusion.

 

 

But to bring it back on topic, this is illustrating exactly why Trump is a dangerous, Xenophobic man. He is proposing a ban on all Muslims entering the United States. This isn't targeting a terrorist group. It is targeting an entire religion. One where the majority of its participants are peaceful, and who have values so far out of line from what ISIS believes.


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  Reply # 1498643 24-Feb-2016 16:42
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SJB:

 

frankv:

 

Let's focus on this for a moment. I assume you're referring to the IRA bombing campaign in the UK?

 

Why did the IRA hate the British enough that they felt violence was the best solution?

 

How well did Britain's strategy and tactics work in controlling/reducing the Irish problem?

 

What was the solution that put an end to the terrorism?

 

Perhaps if we can apply these answers to ISIS, that problem might also be solved.

 

 

I'm not sure you could negotiate with ISIS the same way it was possible to negotiate with the IRA or it's offshoots. But you can't bomb them into oblivion either, they would simply dissipate around the Middle East and Europe.

 

First and foremost they need to be starved of recruits and that's an ideological battle. Groups with such extremist views always wither and die in the end.

 

 

 

Back in the day, the British Govt took this same view with the IRA. "We will not negotiate with terrorists".

 

My point was that (a) treating people like cattle (as the English did with the Irish for hundreds of years) is an obvious way to get them trying to kill you.

 

(b) You can only repress so much. Over time, more and more repression will be needed to maintain the status quo, and will radicalize more moderates.

 

(c) When (as eventually you must) you give the terrorists what they want, they stop terrorizing. AND! What they want isn't unreasonable (e.g. allow them to make their own decisions).

 

I don't really know what ISIS wants... Sharia law and a Caliphate, so they say. But (as in Ireland) religion is often a disguise for social or ethnic issues. I expect that if most ISIS supporters had a *reasonable* (i.e. get rid of Asad, don't replace him with another Western puppet) alternative to fighting, they'd be happy to settle down for a decent life in their homeland .

 

A lot of the trouble in the Middle East stems from British & French (and more recently American) self-interested meddling. e.g. the arbitrary creation of Syria and Iraq as effectively French and British colonies after WW1, despite promises of independence to the Arabs.

 

 


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  Reply # 1498651 24-Feb-2016 16:47
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dclegg:

 

networkn:

 

I think he is saying that if someone identifies themselves as part of a terrorist group, they are to be treated in accordance with what the government or acting leadership of their community has decided is appropriate. In some countries that is death, others, it's prison, expulsion, or exclusion.

 

 

But to bring it back on topic, this is illustrating exactly why Trump is a dangerous, Xenophobic man. He is proposing a ban on all Muslims entering the United States. This isn't targeting a terrorist group. It is targeting an entire religion. One where the majority of its participants are peaceful, and who have values so far out of line from what ISIS believes.

 

 


Trump's own Christian denomination defies him on immigration policy

"Donald Trump, still feeling the aftershocks of his spat with Pope Francis who suggested he was “not a Christian” for proposing a border wall with Mexico, now faces the wrath of his own Presbyterian church leadership who say his hardline views on immigration are out of line with its teachings.

"Gradye Parsons, the most senior elected official of the Presbyterian Church (USA) into which Trump was baptized as a child, said that the Bible is clear: followers of the faith have to care for the needy. “Donald Trump’s views are not in keeping with the policies adopted by our church by deliberative process,” he said.





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  Reply # 1498655 24-Feb-2016 16:54
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jonb:

 

This analysis in the Washington Post today says Trump has all but won the republican race already..

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/23/donald-trump-is-on-course-to-win-the-1237-delegates-he-needs-to-be-the-gop-nominee/

 

 

The media is a powerful ally. Trump knows it. I won't be surprised if he had something to do with this article. Maybe he didn't. But because one of the most influential papers are writing it, it will take something pretty supernatural for Trump to not win now.


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  Reply # 1498695 24-Feb-2016 17:53
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dclegg:

 

But to bring it back on topic, this is illustrating exactly why Trump is a dangerous, Xenophobic man. He is proposing a ban on all Muslims entering the United States. This isn't targeting a terrorist group. It is targeting an entire religion. One where the majority of its participants are peaceful, and who have values so far out of line from what ISIS believes.

 

 

If you bring too much of the third world to your country too quickly what you get is the third world in your country. Our grand parents knew it but it seems like all common sense is out the window these days because it's politically incorrect.

 

It's actually refreshing to see Trump troll the crap out of the PC media, he's a clown genius. It's really hard to tell though how good he'd actually be as president, can you get much done without the true support of the senate etc and we know they are all largely beholden to lobbyists.

 

Remember that homogeneous populations have major advantages: more stable, less crime, higher happiness and more. Some diversity is good, too much diversity is bad. Down the line is it still Germany if the majority of the population isn't native Germans anymore? Alarming data is coming out of the woodwork and slipping through the PC media filter, that rape rate in Sweden is shocking and it's not being perpetuated by native Swedes.

 

Historically Western and Middle Eastern cultures have never integrated well, in fact does mass integration of different cultures ever go well? Spanish and South American maybe but that was pretty bloody too. British and Indian, British and Chinese...

 

A lot of people feel high levels of immigration aren't actually necessary and natural population growth is fine.. there's nothing wrong with good old fashioned nationalism, charity begins at home... if you want to label that xenophobic go ahead.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1498700 24-Feb-2016 18:13
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It's called globalization.

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  Reply # 1498812 24-Feb-2016 21:30
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From the Daily Telegraph:

 

Donald Trump ecstatic after stunning win in Nevada with at least 45 per cent of the vote
Good morning. Donald Trump has trounced his Republican rivals with a decisive victory in Nevada which has sent shockwaves across the Grand Old Party.
Projections on TV networks gave Trump 46 percent of the vote, with senators Marco Rubio of Florida and Ted Cruz of Texas trailing some 20 points behind.
"We will be celebrating for a long time tonight," Trump told cheering supporters in a victory speech.
The lopsided result underscored the enormous challenge Trump's rivals face as the candidates head into next week's all important "Super Tuesday" contests involving 11 states.






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  Reply # 1498821 24-Feb-2016 21:34
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SaltyNZ:

 

gzt:

ISIS is pitching to Richard. Richard gets power over other human beings, some new friends, a company car, regular salary, and a wife +optional sex slaves and it is all perfectly legal!

 

Which is exactly why my plan is genius. It reminds him that in fact what he gets is a short ride to a messy death, drowning in his own blood.

 

Back in the real world, though - apparently ISIS are starting to find it tough to find enough money to pay all their loyal holy fighters these days, so that's nice to hear.

 

 

 

 

Sadly for them, the RAF have been busy blowing up their oil supplies etc which was one of their main sources of money!

 

We have some slinky new missile system with low yield very targeted warheads. I watched some great footage the other day of a Tornado sending two of them through a window to kill the occupants who were ISIS chaps having a meeting.






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