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  #1667614 10-Nov-2016 20:19
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joker97: Depends on president trump's mood ... Or shall i say, depends on president Putin's mood

 

Nup, trendy to say, like the nuke comments, from Clinton or Trump


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  #1668157 11-Nov-2016 16:33
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freitasm:

 

I have removed all invocations to Godwin's Law and posters were warned. Do it again from here and it will be an instant ban.

 

 

1 - My apologies - i didn't know it was actually a rule for GZ. If I had been aware i wouldn't have invoked it.

 

2 - I would actually like to make a case that using it historically - rather than as a dumb ass comparison is a different case - otherwise we are doomed to never learn from history.

 

3 - i would like you to consider i didn't break Godwins law as http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law   would also agree that to use an historical discussion - not a dumb bunny comparison is a valid use .

 

 

 

maybe there is a case for recognizing valid uses - nad incorporating them in the rules.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #1668174 11-Nov-2016 17:05
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Fred99:

 

nunz:

 

 

 

Russia still owns a lot of the USSR and has a lot of influence in the warsaw pact countries.

 

Russia is really really really crazy oil rich among other things.

 

Russia still has a space program

 

Russia still has a massive active army

 

Russia doesn't have a gazllion dollars debt.

 

Russia has gone ahead since the wall came down - USA has gone backwards.

 

 

 

 

Russia GDP per capita is below the world average, similar to Mexico.

 

35% of the wealth of Russia (140 million pop.) is owned by just over 100 people!

 

Russia ranks very highly for corruption - 28th out of 28 in Transparency Int'l reports.

 

Life expectancy at birth in Russia is more than 10 years less than in the USA

 

Murder rate in Russia is more than double the rate in the US, about ten times higher than NZ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

USA has the fourth highest wealth disparity in the world after mexico, turkey and chile ( n comparison, when the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) examined income inequality, it found that the U.S. has the fourth highest income Gini coefficient — 0.40 — after Turkey, Mexico, and Chile. )   not russia. - http://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm   So russia has better wealth distribution.

 

USA owes 20 Trillion dollars ( 19.8 trillion as of today and climbing )   Russia 150 billion.    russion debt to GDP is 15%, USA is 109% of GDP - They are well and truly broke and going deeper.

 

Lets put this in common language. If USA and russia were businesses then the USA would be gaoled for trading insolvent, and the directors equally for somehow managing to owe more than they own. Russia however would have the banks queuing up to lend them money.

 

Corruption - USA at its core allows businesses to pay Govt money to represent their interests. they call this lobbying. That is not considered corrupt. for the last 40 years ( this year excepted) the candidate with the highest financial backing has won the presidency - that money comes from business and interests.

 

NZ - Chch city , 10-20 years ago, had a higher murder rate per head of capita than New York city - but no one considered it particularly dangerous to visit or go to. yet Central Park, the Bronx, Soho, etc were house hold names for violence, drive by shootings etc.

 

The number of billionairs in Russia - only one has stopped being a billionaire since 2010 according to t\OCd stats - yet many many many have in the USA. why? Because their wealth is stock market wealth, - it's not real - and again, corruption - like the stock market is considered legal. Russia's billionaires mostly have real wealth such as gold, oil, property etc.

 

Russian economy has grown massively since the wall came down in the 80's. USA's has shrunk - massively. the inequality seen in the USA shows that while the top 30$ of the wealth is held by 1% of the population - there is a growing gap / growing inequality. Whereas the wealth of the average Russian has increased substantially since the 1980's. There is a gap in Russia, but it is closing while in USA it is growing and is larger than it has been since the great depressions on the 1920s.

 

Looking at static statistics shows USA better in a couple of areas - but looking at patterns over time shows one is growing and healthy, the other is hemorrhaging and dead - walking dead.

 

 

 

RE the GDP - not sure where you got that from but here russia is ranked 12th. http://statisticstimes.com/economy/countries-by-projected-gdp.php

 

Mexico is 15th. New Zealand is 53rd, lower than Bangladesh.

 

Even Greece has a higher GDP than us. - Good job JK :b

 

And again - Wiki - Mexico is no where near russia = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

 

 


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  #1668189 11-Nov-2016 17:31
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networkn:

 

mattwnz:

 

What happens if he dies before being sworn in, in January? eg a heart attack. Does Hillary as the next highest candidate then win? I wouldn't have thought Pence would be next in line prior to being sworn in, or would he?

 

 

 

 

If a winning Presidential candidate dies or becomes incapacitated between the counting of electoral votes in Congress and the inauguration, the Vice President elect will become President, according to Section 3 of the 20th Amendment.

 

 

 

There is pretty much no scenario by which the nominated candidate from the opposing party is elected. There is a chain of people who would take over if both the president-elect and VP-Elect were killed/incapacitated. Because the Republicans have the Senate and House, even more.

 

 

 

 

It's actually something that if you're concerned about Trump for reasons of racist, misogynist, retrograde moves on personal freedom etc, then you don't want Trump to die.  Pence is probably worse, especially as he's a small hero of the conservative religious right.  Trump is also setting up an administration of old, exclusively white, hard-line conservatives.  Oh - and Palin probably.

 

It's a problem.  Trump could even be impeached if he's found to have engaged in fraud and racketeering. I doubt the democrats would want to push for that unless there's a big change in public sentiment, even then it only gets rid of the ringleader.  The world has changed, and there's nothing much that can be done - for 2 years at least (mid term).


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  #1668194 11-Nov-2016 17:45
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nunz:

 

 

 

snip

 

 

Russia isn't in the OECD list, inequality is higher than USA.

 

GDP "per capita" you seem to have missed that.

 

I'd love to see your figures suggesting murder rate in Chch was higher than NYC 20 years ago.  I don't belive you.


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  #1668195 11-Nov-2016 17:49
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You do have to wonder why he doesn't just want to retire, and enjoy the rest of his life. Many people his age are moving into retirement villages. Maybe he thrives on conflict, and likes to be important. But if that is the reason, it is going to wear off quickly I think at his age. I will be very surprised if he lasts more than 1 term one way or another. Being 74 an President is probably pushing it, but being nearly 80 will be a stretch. 

 

It is such a pity they chose Hillary over Bernie, as she just had far too much baggage, and it was always going to be difficult to break the glass ceiling when much of the US is very very conservative. If M. Obama stands in 2020, she is likely going to struggle too. Although apparently Hillary did end up with more people voting for her, the numbers in each state just didn't add up. This shows it isn't a great system, as it means some peoples votes in some states, have more weight and influence than other peoples votes. 


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  #1668200 11-Nov-2016 18:05
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nunz:

 

freitasm:

 

I have removed all invocations to Godwin's Law and posters were warned. Do it again from here and it will be an instant ban.

 

 

1 - My apologies - i didn't know it was actually a rule for GZ. If I had been aware i wouldn't have invoked it.

 

2 - I would actually like to make a case that using it historically - rather than as a dumb ass comparison is a different case - otherwise we are doomed to never learn from history.

 

3 - i would like you to consider i didn't break Godwins law as http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law   would also agree that to use an historical discussion - not a dumb bunny comparison is a valid use .

 

 

 

maybe there is a case for recognizing valid uses - nad incorporating them in the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I support this. I agree on the prohibition against frivolous and misplaced references, but I think it ought to be possible to discuss this in a serious historical context. It is such a big part of history that it is hard to twist around it sometimes. However, I also accept that the final decision rests with the owner and I will respect that regardless.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #1668203 11-Nov-2016 18:17
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mattwnz:

 

You do have to wonder why he doesn't just want to retire, and enjoy the rest of his life. Many people his age are moving into retirement villages. Maybe he thrives on conflict, and likes to be important. But if that is the reason, it is going to wear off quickly I think at his age. I will be very surprised if he lasts more than 1 term one way or another. Being 74 an President is probably pushing it, but being nearly 80 will be a stretch. 

 

It is such a pity they chose Hillary over Bernie, as she just had far too much baggage, and it was always going to be difficult to break the glass ceiling when much of the US is very very conservative. If M. Obama stands in 2020, she is likely going to struggle too. Although apparently Hillary did end up with more people voting for her, the numbers in each state just didn't add up. This shows it isn't a great system, as it means some peoples votes in some states, have more weight and influence than other peoples votes. 

 

 

 

 

I do find the suggestion that because someone gets to 70 they should toddle off to a rest home and wait for the grim reaper a little.. off. :) 

 

I think he geniunely wants to make America great again, and I do believe he thinks he has something to offer. Obviously there are some potential benefits along the way to him.

 

Michelle Obama probably won't run, that's a huge mountain to climb and to be fair, as nice as she is, nice doesn't really qualify you for office. I don't believe she has really shown much in the way of leadership, other than a few nice speeches. 

 

She might run, I would be somewhat surprised if she got past the primaries. 

 

 

 

 


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  #1668208 11-Nov-2016 18:23
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  #1668209 11-Nov-2016 18:24
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mattwnz:

 

You do have to wonder why he doesn't just want to retire, and enjoy the rest of his life. Many people his age are moving into retirement villages. Maybe he thrives on conflict, and likes to be important. But if that is the reason, it is going to wear off quickly I think at his age. I will be very surprised if he lasts more than 1 term one way or another. Being 74 an President is probably pushing it, but being nearly 80 will be a stretch. 

 

It is such a pity they chose Hillary over Bernie, as she just had far too much baggage, and it was always going to be difficult to break the glass ceiling when much of the US is very very conservative. If M. Obama stands in 2020, she is likely going to struggle too. Although apparently Hillary did end up with more people voting for her, the numbers in each state just didn't add up. This shows it isn't a great system, as it means some peoples votes in some states, have more weight and influence than other peoples votes. 

 

 

 

 

can't really complain about the result the system produced, ie the electoral colleges.  its the way the system is, a federation of states which stops smaller states having way less influence that bigger states with more people.  Also they campaigned based on this system.  If the result was based on the general vote, they would've campaigned on that instead of the electoral colleges.


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  #1668212 11-Nov-2016 18:25
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Calexit?

 

 

 

Edit - I thought that was a bit of a hoax.  It's not. 


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  #1668221 11-Nov-2016 18:36
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mattwnz:

 

You do have to wonder why he doesn't just want to retire, and enjoy the rest of his life. ..

 

<snip>

 

 

Because he has a huge ego and loves power? ...  undecided

 





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  #1668288 11-Nov-2016 21:29
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Sideface:

 

mattwnz:

 

You do have to wonder why he doesn't just want to retire, and enjoy the rest of his life. ..

 

<snip>

 

 

Because he has a huge ego and loves power? ...  undecided

 

 

 

And because he got into the presidency just as a hobby and by chance.


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  #1668290 11-Nov-2016 21:39
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If Hillary Clinton had been as honest (non corrupt) as politicians such as Barack Obama, George H Bush, Angela Merkel, Helen Clarke, Norman Kirk, John Key, & pretty much every British & NZ Prime Minister, she would be President Elect right now.  

 

She lost most of the swing states by tiny margins & only has herself and Bill Clinton to blame.    How many scandals could the Tea Party dredge up about Obama?    The answer is nil apart from the crazy birther stuff.    What is the worst scandal Helen Clarke was involved in.

 

The signing of a painting for a charity auction!!    Does not compare with the Clinton Foundation & pay to play.     I have zero sympathy for the Clintons.   

 

  


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  #1668300 11-Nov-2016 22:05
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http://www.steynonline.com/7592/building-the-wall-shattering-the-ceiling

 

I like Mark Steyn's comments here about Trump being a true outsider: "But Trump really did shatter the glass ceiling. We're told that "anyone can grow up to be president", but in practice you have to be a politician or have won the Second World War. Trump is the first non-"public servant" to shatter the glass ceiling. He's proved you can win the presidency without being a Bush or a Clinton or a lifetime member of the political class."

 

Sorry, another great article from Steyn.  I really love his writing:

 

http://www.steynonline.com/7593/when-everyone-hitler-nobody-hitler 

 

In much of western Europe, on all the issues that matter, competitive politics decayed to a rotation of arrogant co-regents of an insular elite, with predictable consequences: if the political culture forbids respectable politicians from raising certain issues, then the electorate will turn to unrespectable ones."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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