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  #1672534 17-Nov-2016 09:06
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With the media generating so much BS over just about every subject on earth this Trump thing will  mostly be turbulence in a refreshment receptacle, I hope.





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  #1672617 17-Nov-2016 10:47
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I’m sure I have made my views on Trump clear. He may turn out to be all hot air and no action, held in check by his party. His motives may not go beyond greed and self-aggrandisement. He may content himself with the ego boost of his victory and the toys of office, then get bored and go off to do something else. All these things are possible.

 

But we do have the examples of history. There are chilling parallels with the rise of Hitler and fascism. Modern neo-fascists are beating the drums again in Europe. It happened before. It is not impossible that it could happen again. It would be very foolish to pretend it can’t.

 

At the moment Trump seems to be in the process of replacing people. Not just opponents, but people in his own camp who may not quite be on the same page as much as he would like. Who is to say this process will stop with his inner circle choices? Many military officers support him. Many others do not. What will happen to those over time? Who is to say that those who currently control the GOP will remain the same? Death by a thousand cuts is the same as death by any other means. Just because he does not have absolute control today does not mean he could not have it tomorrow. Or he may surround himself with people who end up posing a greater threat than he does. These possibilities should not be ruled out.

 

On the basis of his words and behaviour and personality characteristics, I think it is prudent to be concerned and to remain alert. The question is if this world would be capable of doing anything even if the worst did come to pass. What I have seen until now does not exactly fill me with confidence.

 

Did good and decent Romans recognise when their way of life died? It didn’t happen at a particular moment, and it wasn’t the result of a single battle. It was a gradual process that occurred over time, the cumulative effect of many failures of society. We could well be witnessing the end of the democratic era, and just not realise it yet. Or maybe not. Let us fear the worst and hope for the best.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #1672618 17-Nov-2016 10:48
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MikeB4: Do you guys really think the US and Trump has parallels to 1930's Germany? I feel and correct me if I am wrong but the conditions existing in 1930's are a lot different now.

 

 

 

The old saying "perception is reality".

 

Of course I agree that post-depression Germany and the present post-GFC USA are orders of magnitude different, it wasn't the middle/working classes with "some" suffering in Germany, it was everybody.

 

We've got Trump's wild exaggeration of the economic troubles, and of the threats he's "identified" and campaigned on.

 

Trump absolutely has used fascist tactics to incite perception - fear and blame - to gain support. 

 

I'm reading in this thread and elsewhere that "Trump will be kept on a leash" by forces within the GOP, advisers etc.

 

I hope they're right, but have they stopped to think and looked at Trump's rap sheet?  He's a 72 YO man - at an age where it's perhaps a bit unusual for people to have flexible views.  He's also very much a fighter, takes no prisoners, wants to get his own way, and never gives up.  Not having truth on his side hasn't slowed him down. Those character attributes, for better or for worse, are what he is - they define him - and he's very proud of that.  You can forget "blessed are the meek".  He's surrounding himself with similar "strongmen".  

 

What happens next?  We'll see - but there is no doubt he is much more dangerous to the world now than he was before he won the election.


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  #1672623 17-Nov-2016 10:56
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tdgeek: In fact, my opinions are summarised like this. His bark is worse than his bite, and in any case he is on a GOP leash.

The president has the power to replace any office holder in the administration, and is also the military head. The president does not like the opinion of a general, the president replaces the general. Trump has a long list of endorsements to choose loyalists from, or at least someone who will do his bidding on any given day.

Replace the president? Fire the president? There is no such thing as a motion of no confidence in the American system.

Once the president is elected that's it. If the president commits a crime, ok, but you still need a 2/3 majority to convict.

I don't understand this thinking that Trump is on a Republican party leash. Feel free to explain it.

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  #1672646 17-Nov-2016 11:37
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Rikkitic:

 

I’m sure I have made my views on Trump clear. He may turn out to be all hot air and no action, held in check by his party. His motives may not go beyond greed and self-aggrandisement. He may content himself with the ego boost of his victory and the toys of office, then get bored and go off to do something else. All these things are possible.

 

But we do have the examples of history. There are chilling parallels with the rise of Hitler and fascism. Modern neo-fascists are beating the drums again in Europe. It happened before. It is not impossible that it could happen again. It would be very foolish to pretend it can’t.

 

At the moment Trump seems to be in the process of replacing people. Not just opponents, but people in his own camp who may not quite be on the same page as much as he would like. Who is to say this process will stop with his inner circle choices? Many military officers support him. Many others do not. What will happen to those over time? Who is to say that those who currently control the GOP will remain the same? Death by a thousand cuts is the same as death by any other means. Just because he does not have absolute control today does not mean he could not have it tomorrow. Or he may surround himself with people who end up posing a greater threat than he does. These possibilities should not be ruled out.

 

On the basis of his words and behaviour and personality characteristics, I think it is prudent to be concerned and to remain alert. The question is if this world would be capable of doing anything even if the worst did come to pass. What I have seen until now does not exactly fill me with confidence.

 

Did good and decent Romans recognise when their way of life died? It didn’t happen at a particular moment, and it wasn’t the result of a single battle. It was a gradual process that occurred over time, the cumulative effect of many failures of society. We could well be witnessing the end of the democratic era, and just not realise it yet. Or maybe not. Let us fear the worst and hope for the best.

 

 

 

 

Possible. But IMHO he is the leader of the ruling party, not the ruler of the leading party

 

 

 

Time will tell. But all indications so far is that is election rhetoric is and has been wound down, as are his promises


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  #1672647 17-Nov-2016 11:37
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The dangerous fantasy behind Trump's normalization:

 

"It was David Remnick, editor of the New Yorker, who crystallised the situation into a chilling shard, following the US presidential election result. Speaking on CNN, he said: “When I listen to Conrad Black describe Donald Trump, I think I’m hallucinating. When I hear him described as not sexist, not racist, not playing on white fears, not arousing hate, when he’s described in a kind of normalised way, as someone in absolute possession of policy knowledge, as someone who’s somehow in the acceptable range of rhetoric, I think I’m hallucinating. And I fear for our country, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to do so. I accept the results of our election, of course I do. At the same time, I think Vladimir Putin played a distinct role in this election, and that’s outrageous. And we’ve normalised it already. You would think that Mitt Romney had won.”"





 

 

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  #1672652 17-Nov-2016 11:41
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tdgeek:

 

In fact, my opinions are summarised like this. His bark is worse than his bite, and in any case he is on a GOP leash.

 

 

Like a pit bull?  Harmless until he's not?  undecided





Sideface


 
 
 
 


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  #1672655 17-Nov-2016 11:42
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gzt:
tdgeek: In fact, my opinions are summarised like this. His bark is worse than his bite, and in any case he is on a GOP leash.

The president has the power to replace any office holder in the administration, and is also the military head. The president does not like the opinion of a general, the president replaces the general. Trump has a long list of endorsements to choose loyalists from, or at least someone who will do his bidding on any given day.

Replace the president? Fire the president? There is no such thing as a motion of no confidence in the American system.

Once the president is elected that's it. If the president commits a crime, ok, but you still need a 2/3 majority to convict.

I don't understand this thinking that Trump is on a Republican party leash. Feel free to explain it.

 

Sure. Can he do whatever he likes irregardless of the party? Is he?  What knowledge does he have to run the country?  What will happen if he decides to do any of his stupid promises, is the Republican party and the house and senate resigned to that? He needs advice and masses of it. he is probably no better off than any of us here swapping positions right now. IMO he is being told, led, arranged in his presidency, and apart from mpre waffle on TV, a lot wont change. If he goes alone as he did in the election, he will somehow be out before he breaks anything.


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  #1672657 17-Nov-2016 11:45
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Sideface:

 

tdgeek:

 

In fact, my opinions are summarised like this. His bark is worse than his bite, and in any case he is on a GOP leash.

 

 

Like a pit bull?  Harmless until he's not?  undecided

 

 

Like a terrier, yap yap yap. He had power in the election, it was all about him. Reality has set in. What could happen is he fires people on s regular basis

 

that wont go along with any stupid ideas. Or could be a vote of no confidence in him, I dunno how that could play out as its new


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  #1672660 17-Nov-2016 11:54
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Rikkitic:

 

We could well be witnessing the end of the democratic era, and just not realise it yet. Or maybe not. Let us fear the worst and hope for the best.

 

 

I'm hoping that we're witnessing the change to a new democratic era, where political power is again vested in the people rather than the elite.

 

 


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  #1672666 17-Nov-2016 11:58
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SaltyNZ:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Not sure what she has done to be called evil???...surely this isnt about an email server??

 

 

 

 

The email server thing doesn't make her evil. At best it makes her reckless or incompetent: the kind of reckless incompetence that, for you or me, would at the very least result in revocation of security clearance and the end of our career in handling classified information. And I do believe, also, prosecution, given that at least two hackers have already published some of the info, so although you cannot prove it, it is a dead certainty that it's all in the hands of Russia and/or China.

 

 

The Republicans  ran their own email server for the duration of Bush's term and deleted 25 million emails. The hypocrisy from them was unbelievable.


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  #1672667 17-Nov-2016 11:58
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Fred99:

 

Trump absolutely has used fascist tactics to incite perception - fear and blame - to gain support. 

 

 

I think it's wrong to label these tactics as fascist. FUD is a pretty standard tactic worldwide, and used by despots of all persuasions.

 

 


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  #1672669 17-Nov-2016 12:01
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I don't think there's any way he'll be stopped or even slowed down short of impeachment.  That's becoming more of a possibility, there probably would be the numbers in both houses if he continues on his present path.  But then, it still wouldn't be over.  He wouldn't go down without a fight - presumably that would include accusation that is was "proof" of the conspiracy theories he's been arguing, with the result that literally millions of avid supporters will run riot.


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  #1672671 17-Nov-2016 12:05
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sbiddle:

 

SaltyNZ:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Not sure what she has done to be called evil???...surely this isnt about an email server??

 

 

 

 

The email server thing doesn't make her evil. At best it makes her reckless or incompetent: the kind of reckless incompetence that, for you or me, would at the very least result in revocation of security clearance and the end of our career in handling classified information. And I do believe, also, prosecution, given that at least two hackers have already published some of the info, so although you cannot prove it, it is a dead certainty that it's all in the hands of Russia and/or China.

 

 

The Republicans  ran their own email server for the duration of Bush's term and deleted 25 million emails. The hypocrisy from them was unbelievable.

 

 

Yes I recall that after invading Iraq and destroying their infrastructure Bush gave the contract of rebuilding Iraq to his brother's company. That's just one of them ... I wonder who took all the oil ...





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #1672682 17-Nov-2016 12:11
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Rikkitic:

 

 

 

Did good and decent Romans recognise when their way of life died? It didn’t happen at a particular moment, and it wasn’t the result of a single battle. It was a gradual process that occurred over time, the cumulative effect of many failures of society. We could well be witnessing the end of the democratic era, and just not realise it yet. Or maybe not. Let us fear the worst and hope for the best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, like the electoral outcome or hate it, what this result shows is democracy in action. That someone like Donald Trump can be elected is an indication that democracy is not dying. However it does show that the democratic process

 

can be influenced by the media and their adrenalin fueled pontifications. 





Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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