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jarledb
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  #1696285 29-Dec-2016 19:26
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tdgeek:
And you feel that made Democrats change their vote in huge numbers?

 

 

You know, if the majority were to win in the US, there would be no president. The majority of people didn't vote.

 

At second place was Hillary Clinton, with almost 3 million more votes than Trump. And Hillary got more votes than any other US president of all time, with the exception of Obama.

 

You tell me, does that seem like a healthy democratic system to you?

 

 

People weren't forced or deprived

 

 

Oh people were deprived. The Republicans have been working on "fixing the system" for a good long time. In areas where there are a lot of black voters, that typically vote for the Democratic party, they have made the ID-laws much strickter. To "fix voter fraud" (which isn't an actual problem).

 

 





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jarledb
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  #1696286 29-Dec-2016 19:27
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Oh, and there might be at least one person that was forced...

 





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tdgeek
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  #1696288 29-Dec-2016 19:28
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JWR:

 

tdgeek:

 

JWR:

 

tdgeek: 

Democracy isn't idealistic. And it's not really a preference. The end user, I.e the citizens choose a leader. That's not idealism at all. The only thing I can think of to improve democracy it to make it illegal not to vote. But if you don't have to vote and you don't, that's tough bikkies. The people have spoken, not a law or dictator, that's the difference

 

That is an idealistic reply.

 



I'll correct you. That is your opinion. If you locate a means to allow the populous to vote 100% for a new leader, we have perfection. That will never happen. At the other end is a dictator. End of the day, every few years, the populous votes

 

 

Already said it was my opinion.

 

Yet, you are intent on 'correcting me!', Do you have a CONTROL complex?

 

People have been arguing Democracy for a couple of thousand years.

 

Yet, it is possible to see what is more or less Democratic in the modern World.

 

 


That is an idealistic reply does not infer that is your opinion.
No, I don't have a control complex, although I tire when hackles rise because someone does not agree with someone else.
Give us your learned improvement in democracy then.

Same old thing, a discussion ends up like this. A vs B and not the discussion


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  #1696289 29-Dec-2016 19:35
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jarledb:

tdgeek:
And you feel that made Democrats change their vote in huge numbers?



You know, if the majority were to win in the US, there would be no president. The majority of people didn't vote.


At second place was Hillary Clinton, with almost 3 million more votes than Trump.


You tell me, does that seem like a healthy democratic system to you?



People weren't forced or deprived



Oh people were deprived. The Republicans have been working on "fixing the system" for a good long time. In areas where there are a lot of black voters, that typically vote for the Democratic party, they have made the ID-laws much strickter. To "fix voter fraud" (which isn't an actual problem).


 


I do hear you. We have that here, if many don't vote that's their choice, tough. They have the ability to vote but they didn't. They cannot complain. The answer is compulsory voting which I think Australia has in some form

Here, we change electoral boundaries, same thing, it changes the ability to win or lose a seat. Voter fraud? It exists. Proper ID? Won't that help? But it's like that here, many don't vote. Here, your are legally required to be on the electoral role, but don't have to vote. That should change

gzt

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  #1696292 29-Dec-2016 19:43
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JWR & tdgeek, I hope one of you reduces the quote length on the next reply. ; )

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  #1696294 29-Dec-2016 19:46
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gzt: JWR & tdgeek, I hope one of you reduces the quote length on the next reply. ; )


I know, I'll pay for the ink! Oh no ink needed! I'm outside on the iPad which isn't easy to manage quotes, but your right

JimsonWeed
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  #1696297 29-Dec-2016 19:50
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jarledb:

 

tdgeek:
And you feel that made Democrats change their vote in huge numbers?

 

 

You know, if the majority were to win in the US, there would be no president. The majority of people didn't vote.

 

At second place was Hillary Clinton, with almost 3 million more votes than Trump.

 

You tell me, does that seem like a healthy democratic system to you?

 

 

People weren't forced or deprived

 

 

Oh people were deprived. The Republicans have been working on "fixing the system" for a good long time. In areas where there are a lot of black voters, that typically vote for the Democratic party, they have made the ID-laws much strickter. To "fix voter fraud" (which isn't an actual problem).

 

 

Interesting view you have there.  Actually, voter fraud is fairly common.  Incidentally why wouldn't you expect voters to have IDs?  Is there a problem with a person getting an ID?  Come to think of it, you can't vote anywhere in NZ without proving your identity can you?   Also, why do you suppose it is that minorities generally vote the Democratic party ticket?

 

Again... relying on the popular vote by itself is flawed logic.  If it were just based on popular voting, all the candidates would need to do is focus on California, Florida, New York, and Texas.  There would never be a need to go to Podunk, Arkansas to get Billy Bubba's vote.  Each state is worth a different number of representatives and the goal is to sew up those states with the highest representative count.  This is where the term "Fly Over States" comes from.  Who gives a hoot about a scraggly, low-population state.  The coastal states represent the fatted calf and this is where Hillary choked up.  They targeted the big ticket states and neglected the fly-overs.  Unfortunately, the big ticket states had had enough of Obama and didn't want a 3rd term of it.  Consequently, she lost the big ticket states and the fly-over states just ignored her.

 

Peace... good talk.  I enjoy politics.


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  #1696299 29-Dec-2016 19:53
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JimsonWeed:

jarledb:


tdgeek:
And you feel that made Democrats change their vote in huge numbers?



You know, if the majority were to win in the US, there would be no president. The majority of people didn't vote.


At second place was Hillary Clinton, with almost 3 million more votes than Trump.


You tell me, does that seem like a healthy democratic system to you?



People weren't forced or deprived



Oh people were deprived. The Republicans have been working on "fixing the system" for a good long time. In areas where there are a lot of black voters, that typically vote for the Democratic party, they have made the ID-laws much strickter. To "fix voter fraud" (which isn't an actual problem).



Interesting view you have there.  Actually, voter fraud is fairly common.  Incidentally why wouldn't you expect voters to have IDs?  Is there a problem with a person getting an ID?  Come to think of it, you can't vote anywhere in NZ without proving your identity can you?   Also, why do you suppose it is that minorities generally vote the Democratic party ticket?


Again... relying on the popular vote by itself is flawed logic.  If it were just based on popular voting, all the candidates would need to do is focus on California, Florida, New York, and Texas.  There would never be a need to go to Podunk, Arkansas to get Billy Bubba's vote.  Each state is worth a different number of representatives and the goal is to sew up those states with the highest representative count.  This is where the term "Fly Over States" comes from.  Who gives a hoot about a scraggly, low-population state.  The coastal states represent the fatted calf and this is where Hillary choked up.  They targeted the big ticket states and neglected the fly-overs.  Unfortunately, the big ticket states had had enough of Obama and didn't want a 3rd term of it.  Consequently, she lost the big ticket states and the fly-over states just ignored her.


Peace... good talk.  I enjoy politics.



Had enough of Obama was a huge negative for them. And like here, multi term parties fade "time for a change"

JWR

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  #1696303 29-Dec-2016 20:02
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gzt: JWR & tdgeek, I hope one of you reduces the quote length on the next reply. ; )

 

LOL. Agreed!

 

System a bit buggy tho:)


gzt

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  #1696305 29-Dec-2016 20:09
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JimsonWeed: Again... relying on the popular vote by itself is flawed logic. If it were just based on popular voting, all the candidates would need to do is focus on California, Florida, New York, and Texas.

Once again, your logic is flawed and based on an incorrect understanding of the electoral college.

JWR

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  #1696308 29-Dec-2016 20:12
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gzt:
JimsonWeed: Again... relying on the popular vote by itself is flawed logic. If it were just based on popular voting, all the candidates would need to do is focus on California, Florida, New York, and Texas.

Once again, your logic is flawed and based on an incorrect understanding of the electoral college.

 

 

 

No, they should clearly focus on the marginal states in that scenario.


JWR

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  #1696310 29-Dec-2016 20:17
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JWR:

 

gzt:
JimsonWeed: Again... relying on the popular vote by itself is flawed logic. If it were just based on popular voting, all the candidates would need to do is focus on California, Florida, New York, and Texas.

Once again, your logic is flawed and based on an incorrect understanding of the electoral college.

 

 

 

No, they should clearly focus on the marginal states in that scenario.

 

 

Sorry that is also incorrect. .. Focus on marginal states with easiest and/or greatest gains.

 

You would have to do the math to work out what is more or less valuable.


JimsonWeed
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  #1696311 29-Dec-2016 20:22
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gzt:
JimsonWeed: Again... relying on the popular vote by itself is flawed logic. If it were just based on popular voting, all the candidates would need to do is focus on California, Florida, New York, and Texas.

Once again, your logic is flawed and based on an incorrect understanding of the electoral college.

 

 

 

Ah well.. let's agree to disagree.  :)

 

In the meantime, consider the points discussed in this book. You can reference it at books.google.co.nz with the search criteria, "electoral college".

 

 

 

Bugh, G. (Ed.). (2016). Electoral College Reform: Challenges and Possibilities. Routledge.

 

 

 

Cheers


JWR

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  #1696325 29-Dec-2016 20:53
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JimsonWeed:

 

gzt:
JimsonWeed: Again... relying on the popular vote by itself is flawed logic. If it were just based on popular voting, all the candidates would need to do is focus on California, Florida, New York, and Texas.

Once again, your logic is flawed and based on an incorrect understanding of the electoral college.

 

 

 

Ah well.. let's agree to disagree.  :)

 

In the meantime, consider the points discussed in this book. You can reference it at books.google.co.nz with the search criteria, "electoral college".

 

 

 

Bugh, G. (Ed.). (2016). Electoral College Reform: Challenges and Possibilities. Routledge.

 

 

 

Cheers

 


gzt

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  #1696328 29-Dec-2016 21:00
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JimsonWeed:

gzt:
JimsonWeed: Again... relying on the popular vote by itself is flawed logic. If it were just based on popular voting, all the candidates would need to do is focus on California, Florida, New York, and Texas.

Once again, your logic is flawed and based on an incorrect understanding of the electoral college.


 


Ah well.. let's agree to disagree.  :)


In the meantime, consider the points discussed in this book. You can reference it at books.google.co.nz with the search criteria, "electoral college".


 


Bugh, G. (Ed.). (2016). Electoral College Reform: Challenges and Possibilities. Routledge.


 


Cheers


I don't think we are at that stage yet! : ). Fact:

- Florida has approx 17% of the population of the USA
- Florida has approx 17% of the votes in the electoral college

Both true. You are continuing to claim that Donald Trump won because the electoral college was created so that states with large populations would have less influence. That claim is clearly not accurate on many levels.

Those are the facts.


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