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  #1696496 30-Dec-2016 14:42
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JimsonWeed:

 

jarledb:

 

And he is taking credit for boosting the economy and for increased christmas spending.

 

Good grief, the commander in thief... 

 

 

It's a reflection of people's confidence in the incoming administration.  Surely we all agree that under the previous (and current) administration, it's been horrendously poor growth on a global scale.  Still though, I'll concede to the potentially fallacy in logic; post hoc ergo proctor hoc.

 

Let's apply Occam's Razor and ask the question; What is the most likely reason for the upturn in the economy?

 

 

Malum quidem nullum esse sine aliquo bono - Pliny The Elder

 

Actually, it's a reflection of people's (or perhaps corporations') confidence in making money under the incoming administration. Deregulation is good for making money, and *both* the Republican Party and Trump are pro-deregulation. quod erat demonstrandum

 

Whether this will be a good thing remains to be seen... the regulations are there to rein in the robber barons and the risk takers.

 

Malum consilium quod mutari non potest

 

 


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  #1696500 30-Dec-2016 14:53
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Not long now before our speculation, turns to real actions. I can see myself on CNN a lot, post 20/01


 
 
 
 


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  #1696502 30-Dec-2016 15:10
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frankv:

 

Malum quidem nullum esse sine aliquo bono - Pliny The Elder

 

Actually, it's a reflection of people's (or perhaps corporations') confidence in making money under the incoming administration. Deregulation is good for making money, and *both* the Republican Party and Trump are pro-deregulation. quod erat demonstrandum

 

Whether this will be a good thing remains to be seen... the regulations are there to rein in the robber barons and the risk takers.

 

Malum consilium quod mutari non potest

 

 

Excellent and in great form!  I will agree it probably favours corporations but, we live and breath by their success also.  I completely agree with his idea of reducing corporate taxes to stimulate growth.  It is economically sound and serves to stimulate investment and the need for resource utilisation.  With regard to minimum wage increases... I don't think people really understand that it is a short-lived solution.  Ultimately, the cost is spread to the rest of the population through the ripple effect.  You pay higher wages, you raise you prices.  It doesn't take much to recoup the cost when it's spread over a variety of revenue streams.  It's a way of really waving a carrot in front of people to make them believe they are actually getting something.  Having said that though, you also should not be able to take advantage of a surplus in labour by paying slave wages.  Economics is a funny thing. There are so many conditions where the adage of the "chicken or the egg" can't be scientifically proven.

 

In any event, my biggest concern over the new administration is his shortsightedness on the geo-political environment.  In today's world, you can't always jump to be a hawk but at the same time, you can't always be a dove lest the other hawks eat you.  All in all, it's a balancing act on many many fronts.  Hopefully, he will listen to a well-balanced advisory panel.  Caligula is remembered as having said Oderint dum metuant. I tend to think Trump aligns with this philosophy.  Wealth and power have a way of turning people in this manner.

 

Great discussion! 


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  #1696503 30-Dec-2016 15:16
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Its funny to read people talking about how reduced taxes and lower wages are the way to go.

 

That has been tried many times before. The last time was under Bush Jr. Look at what that did to the US economy.

 

In addition to the money wasted on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (which really didn't accomplish much more than growing more radicals and more instability), the tax breaks under W. Bush created the huge deficit that the Obama administration had to deal with, along with a massive recession.

 

Now that the Democrats have managed to turn the ship around (which also happened under Bill Clintons rule), its time to try to sink the ship again, apparently.

 

And as usual, its going to be the top 1% that get richer, while everyone else gets deeper in the dirt.

 

Mark my words, the Trump administration is going to be riddled with corruption. Having his kids who "runs" his company now in on meeting with top leaders of the world is going to open up a lot of business opportunities for the Trumps.


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  #1696517 30-Dec-2016 16:08
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jarledb:

 

Its funny to read people talking about how reduced taxes and lower wages are the way to go.

 

That has been tried many times before. The last time was under Bush Jr. Look at what that did to the US economy.

 

In addition to the money wasted on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (which really didn't accomplish much more than growing more radicals and more instability), the tax breaks under W. Bush created the huge deficit that the Obama administration had to deal with, along with a massive recession.

 

Now that the Democrats have managed to turn the ship around (which also happened under Bill Clintons rule), its time to try to sink the ship again, apparently.

 

And as usual, its going to be the top 1% that get richer, while everyone else gets deeper in the dirt.

 

Mark my words, the Trump administration is going to be riddled with corruption. Having his kids who "runs" his company now in on meeting with top leaders of the world is going to open up a lot of business opportunities for the Trumps.

 

 

You're right about 1 thing... the top 1% are going to continue to get richer.  Even in the worst of times, that 1% does well because, they are effectively insulated against most economic shifts.  It takes an economic shift such as the Great Depression to seriously impact their being.  Bear in mind though... not every 1% got to that point by being a crook.  Some earned it honestly.  Likewise, there is still a considerable amount of "old money" in the world.  Unfortunately, many of those people earned their wealth when there were little or no restrictions on their particular markets.  Still, others like the Kennedy's became wealthy by bootlegging alcohol during Prohibition.  Vanderbilt, DuPont, Morgan... there's a long list of old money.  Regardless of how they came about their money, do you favour redistributing their wealth to society?

 

Trump used the system to avoid paying taxes for something like 20 years.  He didn't cheat.  He simply used the system on a grander scale than you and I.  As far as having his kids run his company - that's fine so long as they follow the rules of engagement.

 

The Democrats have done good things in the past.  Not every one of them is a sorry being.  The same goes for Republicans.  Not all of them are bad either.  In this case though, the Democrats may have some a few good things but, Christ on a Crutch... "the Democrats have managed to turn the ship"...   Please... enlighten me.  Seriously... what are the major accomplishments you see the Democrats have achieved in the last 8 years?  Really... I'd like to see what they've done as a matter of fact, without reflecting it against what the Republicans have or haven't done.  On their own merit, short of theory, conjecture, opinion, or anyone's interpretation, point me to something tangible which highlights the "ship" they've turned around.

 

Good discussion... and by the way, we also agree that the wars have not done any favours to the economy but, what do you do?  If the US didn't act like the world police, who would?


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  #1696539 30-Dec-2016 17:21
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Apparently Democrats reduced unemployment, made healthcare more accessible to the poorest and middle-class and improved minimum wage. Exactly what Republicans don't want.





 

 

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  #1696545 30-Dec-2016 17:55
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freitasm:

 

Apparently Democrats reduced unemployment, made healthcare more accessible to the poorest and middle-class and improved minimum wage. Exactly what Republicans don't want.

 

 

With all due respect, can you cite your sources?  While you are at it, take a look at how long the heathcare issue has been on the table and under which parties have supported it.  It's needed for sure but, there has always been contentious issues over the silliest of things. It would be great if they would model it after Canada but, it's hard hard hard to untangle all the investments that have gone into the health sector.  You just can't force doctors to fix a price for their services and sure enough, the pharmaceutical industry is not about to yield to price caps.  The cost will remain the same and yet it has to come from somewhere.  On a side note, the reason so many pharmaceutical companies stopped research antibiotics is that there is very little return on the investment due to the nature of antibiotics and the length of time at which they are administered.  They like to focus on things like Viagra... something you will take everyday for the rest of your life.  They can't make drugs unless there is a defined illness so what do they do... they define symptoms and get doctors to label it as a medical issue. :)

 

Minimum wages increases are a temporary fix.  Every politician uses them to garner votes.  Still though... a constant level is necessary to prevent abuse.  If you want to read about abuse... dig up the story of Matwon, West Virginia.  It's an excellent story made into a movie.  It will absolutely "piss you off"  :)

 

Republicans generally represent both conservative thinking and wealth - we all know this.  The things you mentioned are socialist in nature - they seek to help our fellow man.  There's nothing wrong with that but, the hardliners don't believe in it being a gravy train either.  One of the main reasons Communism and Socialism often fail is, there is no incentive for the common man to excel in his station.  Why strive to be the best when being mediocre offers the same benefits?

 

If you have sources other than the Huffington Post or Fox News, by all means, share it.  It's very difficult to get sound information these days.  Everybody is more at ease with simply regurgitating what they heard someone else say.  I keep pointing at this ->  http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html    This kind of thing is going on all over the world.  It's not limited to the Russian.  Almost every civilised western society is engaged in this for one reason of another.

 

Do you remember "Occupy" this or that?  You know how they broke that up when it started gaining support from other than the lunatic fringe?  They sent a select group of media into the midst and found the most ignorant, unwashed individuals they could find, then asked a simple question, "What is this all about?"  They shut up and let them ramble  :)  Anyone of any substance immediately decided they didn't want to be any part of that mob.  Had they been more organised and had proper spokesmen... yeah, that movement was gathering serious momentum for a while.

 

Anyhow.. thanks for the response.  I do enjoy politics and hope I'm not hogging the forum too much :)  It's a pleasure to be on here.


 
 
 
 


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  #1696554 30-Dec-2016 18:09
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You insult me by insinuating I read either Fox or Huffington Post. They're both terrible rags.




 

 

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  #1696563 30-Dec-2016 18:23
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freitasm: You insult me by insinuating I read either Fox or Huffington Post. They're both terrible rags.

 

No, no... I was asking you not to reference them in the off-chance that you did read them.  You're right... they represent both ends of the spectrum.  :)


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  #1696588 30-Dec-2016 20:10
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JimsonWeed:

 

freitasm: You insult me by insinuating I read either Fox or Huffington Post. They're both terrible rags.

 

No, no... I was asking you not to reference them in the off-chance that you did read them.  You're right... they represent both ends of the spectrum.  :)

 

 

They're actually far from the "ends of the spectrum".

 

The present American delusion seems to be based on some concept that "balance" can be achieved by averaging propaganda.

 

Trump has been telling huge lies. Half-way "compromise" between a lie and the truth still isn't the truth.  That's not a "left vs right" thing, verifiable truth isn't in itself partisan.

 

Then you get to the other side of Trump - apart from the filthy lies - he's a racist, misogynistic, petulant pig.

 

 


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  #1696590 30-Dec-2016 20:16
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THe bottom line was in a post-truth America, the hatred towards Hillary Clinton eclipsed the lies of Trump. THe people chose Trump because they did not want Hillary. The Democrats did not see this. If they did, they should withdraw Hillary or swapped with a more electable candidate. It's a game. Whether chess politics or spelling bee, there are rules, strategies, winners and losers.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




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#1696593 30-Dec-2016 20:30
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Think the bovine excrement is bad now? Wait until the comb overed meglomaniac is in the Whitehouse.


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  #1696596 30-Dec-2016 20:50
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Fred99:

JimsonWeed:


freitasm: You insult me by insinuating I read either Fox or Huffington Post. They're both terrible rags.


No, no... I was asking you not to reference them in the off-chance that you did read them.  You're right... they represent both ends of the spectrum.  :)



They're actually far from the "ends of the spectrum".


The present American delusion seems to be based on some concept that "balance" can be achieved by averaging propaganda.


Trump has been telling huge lies. Half-way "compromise" between a lie and the truth still isn't the truth.  That's not a "left vs right" thing, verifiable truth isn't in itself partisan.


Then you get to the other side of Trump - apart from the filthy lies - he's a racist, misogynistic, petulant pig.


 



Say what we like it ain't changing anything. America has spoken, and they got who they wanted. Trump is going to be the next POTUS




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #1696597 30-Dec-2016 20:53
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Fred99:

 

They're actually far from the "ends of the spectrum".

 

The present American delusion seems to be based on some concept that "balance" can be achieved by averaging propaganda.

 

Trump has been telling huge lies. Half-way "compromise" between a lie and the truth still isn't the truth.  That's not a "left vs right" thing, verifiable truth isn't in itself partisan.

 

Then you get to the other side of Trump - apart from the filthy lies - he's a racist, misogynistic, petulant pig.

 

 

In terms of FoxNews versus The Huffington Post.. in that context, without expanding to include the Communist Manifesto and/or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion... Yes, they are on the extreme ends of the spectrum from one another.  So, in the context as described, comparing only these two organisations with one another in relation to conservatism and liberalism... Yes, they are the extreme of the spectrum.

 

As far as lies are concerned.. we all lie.. full stop.  Not to mention but, truth is a perception.  Fives witnesses observe a crime.  Five witnesses will testify under oath that their testimony is true.  In short... both of these people lied and so did their staff and their constituency.  We're people!  It's in our nature.  Granted... Trump has pulled some stunts.  Likewise, so has Hillary.  Unfortunately, this election was a matter of who sucks less.  Obviously, Trump sucks less.  :)

 

Now then... "racist, misogynistic, petulant pig"... You know this how?  Do you know him?  Do you know someone who knows him?  :)  Incidentally, you forgot xenophobic and narcissistic :)  Please, do tell.  What makes him a racist?  With regard to him being misogynistic... which component of the definition does he most represent?  I doubt seriously he hates women but could he be an overzealous letch... Yeah, probably.  So was "Slick Willy" Clinton.  I have to add that if you think just because most men curtail their "open" comments and/or advances that their still not thinking about it... you're kidding yourself.  :)  Petulant... Yeah, I would agree that he is.  Unless you are as complacent as a pond, we all are to some extent but yeah... I'll agree he's spoiled.  :)

 

 


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  #1696602 30-Dec-2016 21:06
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Fred99:

 

JimsonWeed:

 

freitasm: You insult me by insinuating I read either Fox or Huffington Post. They're both terrible rags.

 

No, no... I was asking you not to reference them in the off-chance that you did read them.  You're right... they represent both ends of the spectrum.  :)

 

 

They're actually far from the "ends of the spectrum".

 

The present American delusion seems to be based on some concept that "balance" can be achieved by averaging propaganda.

 

Trump has been telling huge lies. Half-way "compromise" between a lie and the truth still isn't the truth.  That's not a "left vs right" thing, verifiable truth isn't in itself partisan.

 

Then you get to the other side of Trump - apart from the filthy lies - he's a racist, misogynistic, petulant pig.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How many more pages of this thread can you fill saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over?! I think it's a well accepted fact (and I am happy to speak on behalf of EVERYONE in the thread) that you don't like him. We get it! Honestly.

 

It's their country, their right to vote in whomever they wish and it's them primarily that have to deal with the consequences. 

 

You keep applying *your* logic to the argument which clearly doesn't apply to them because of their history and culture and no amount of going on and on about it, will change that. America wanted a change and he is a change no matter what you say. 

 

 


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