Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1697320 1-Jan-2017 19:49

MaxLV:

It's become a 'dirty word' because of the way millions of so called liberals all over the world have behaved post 08/11/2016.

If these are accepted definitions of liberal, what are all the anti-Trump 'protesters' then?

Because they're anything but willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from their own, or be open to new ideas, favorable or respectful of individual rights or freedoms, favoring individual liberty and any political and social reform (AKA Make America Great again, Drain The Swamp)...

You just need to look at all their posts, you tube video's, opinion pieces in the media, and numerous conspiracy theories about the free and fair USA election results were somehow 'rigged' because it didn't go the way they wanted.

*********************

The West Wing: How most people believe the US president and US political hierarchy work for the good of 'all'.

House Of Cards: How the US president and hierarchy really rule the world.

Isn't it time this 'discussion' was locked?

Good or bad, Trump won, this is the reality the world has to live with for the next 4-8 years.

Not All Men.

Rubbish - you're choosing to see what you want to see.

There's plenty of reasoned, rational criticism of Trump, which is not based on "how the election was won" but what he's said, what he's said he'll do, and the impact of that on global trade, treaties, and diplomatic agreements between nations.

I'm not disputing that Trump won the election under the rules, fair and square. I'd also not disagree that a "shake-up" in US politics was long overdue.

But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet.

JimsonWeed

126 posts

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Inactive user

#1697322 1-Jan-2017 19:52

Rubbish - you're choosing to see what you want to see.

There's plenty of reasoned, rational criticism of Trump, which is not based on "how the election was won" but what he's said, what he's said he'll do, and the impact of that on global trade, treaties, and diplomatic agreements between nations.

I'm not disputing that Trump won the election under the rules, fair and square. I'd also not disagree that a "shake-up" in US politics was long overdue.

But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet.

"But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet."

Well... I rest my case :)

Fred99

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#1697324 1-Jan-2017 19:54

JimsonWeed:

Fred99:

Yeah, great... a pretty picture. I didn't eat breakfast this morning and it started raining. Therefore, if I don't eat breakfast, it will rain. :) I know all this sounds pedantic but, people appear to be incredibly naive today. They seem to believe anything presented to them if it "looks" intelligent. Incidentally, I personally believe Bush failed us all. It doesn't really matter which political party he associates himself with. It's as if he was simply swinging from his daddy's coattails. What seems to have made him popular at the time was his speech at ground zero. Beyond that, it is strongly suggested that he lied to a whole bunch of us with his quest for WMDs. He let his counterpart in England (Tony Blair), get crucified in the public.

I think we can share an opinion that Bush sucked for the most part. :)

Here are some media views on Obama;

https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/12/19/president-obama-grants-153-commutations-and-78-pardons-individuals-deserving-second

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2016/02/01/barack_obamas_sad_record_on_economic_growth_101987.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/obamas-biggest-failures-and-successes/2012/10/29/c1299288-21cc-11e2-8448-81b1ce7d6978_blog.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2013/12/31/barack-obamas-presidency-is-a-complete-failure-by-his-own-self-imposed-standards

Now then... do you trust these sources as prima facie evidence of facts or would you challenge them for any reason?

This isn't a debate of candidates... it's all around people using statements like, "He's a racist, she's a liar, he's not an American, he's not qualified", etc., etc., etc. That crap needs to stop at all levels and across all parties. It only serves to provide rhetorical ammunition for the intellectually challenged people. Everybody needs to work together but to do so, you need to raise the bar of people's ability to think for themselves.

So please, don't take my comments as being condescending or personal attacks of any nature. My goal is to get people to think for themselves on a higher plateau of logic and reason as opposed to being spoon-fed a particular narrative by those who have an agenda. If you want to see the results of propaganda, read up on what North Koreans believe about their leader. It's not that they are stupid people but, it's all they have ever known and come to believe.

I don't take your comments very seriously at all.

You just confirmed everything that I thought about you. I posted nothing more than a (verifiable) list of comparative statistics without comment, and that got you launched into an epic rant.

As for your comments: " It only serves to provide rhetorical ammunition for the intellectually challenged people ".

Yes it did - congratulate yourself.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1697325 1-Jan-2017 19:55

JimsonWeed:

Rubbish - you're choosing to see what you want to see.

There's plenty of reasoned, rational criticism of Trump, which is not based on "how the election was won" but what he's said, what he's said he'll do, and the impact of that on global trade, treaties, and diplomatic agreements between nations.

I'm not disputing that Trump won the election under the rules, fair and square. I'd also not disagree that a "shake-up" in US politics was long overdue.

But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet.

"But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet."

Well... I rest my case :)

You'd be better to plead "no contest". He is what he is.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1697329 1-Jan-2017 20:03

US "Favorability" survey results for Trump:

MaxLV

656 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1697375 1-Jan-2017 22:43

JimsonWeed:

Rubbish - you're choosing to see what you want to see.

There's plenty of reasoned, rational criticism of Trump, which is not based on "how the election was won" but what he's said, what he's said he'll do, and the impact of that on global trade, treaties, and diplomatic agreements between nations.

I'm not disputing that Trump won the election under the rules, fair and square. I'd also not disagree that a "shake-up" in US politics was long overdue.

But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet.

"But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet."

Well... I rest my case :)

Me to. Nothing more needs to be said.

(Back to unsubscribing from this 'debate'.)

Not All Men.

Geektastic

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#1697377 1-Jan-2017 23:05

JimsonWeed:

Rubbish - you're choosing to see what you want to see.

There's plenty of reasoned, rational criticism of Trump, which is not based on "how the election was won" but what he's said, what he's said he'll do, and the impact of that on global trade, treaties, and diplomatic agreements between nations.

I'm not disputing that Trump won the election under the rules, fair and square. I'd also not disagree that a "shake-up" in US politics was long overdue.

But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet.

"But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet."

Well... I rest my case :)

If you prefer a leader like that - and clearly over half of Americans do - then it was the right thing to do.

Everyone is making the mistake of viewing American politics through a Kiwi lens. It won't work - you'll get the wrong answer.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1697386 1-Jan-2017 23:33

Geektastic:

JimsonWeed:

Fred99:

Rubbish - you're choosing to see what you want to see.

There's plenty of reasoned, rational criticism of Trump, which is not based on "how the election was won" but what he's said, what he's said he'll do, and the impact of that on global trade, treaties, and diplomatic agreements between nations.

I'm not disputing that Trump won the election under the rules, fair and square. I'd also not disagree that a "shake-up" in US politics was long overdue.

But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet.

"But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet."

Well... I rest my case :)

You'd be better to plead "no contest". He is what he is.

If you prefer a leader like that - and clearly over half of Americans do - then it was the right thing to do.

Everyone is making the mistake of viewing American politics through a Kiwi lens. It won't work - you'll get the wrong answer.

Only about 25% of eligible US voters cast a vote for Trump and he lost the popular vote - so it's not true to state that "clearly over half of Americans" prefer a leader like that.

It'd be better (IMO) if "post truth" myth wasn't used in debate here.

Geektastic

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#1697391 1-Jan-2017 23:44

Fred99:

Geektastic:

JimsonWeed:

Fred99:

Rubbish - you're choosing to see what you want to see.

There's plenty of reasoned, rational criticism of Trump, which is not based on "how the election was won" but what he's said, what he's said he'll do, and the impact of that on global trade, treaties, and diplomatic agreements between nations.

I'm not disputing that Trump won the election under the rules, fair and square. I'd also not disagree that a "shake-up" in US politics was long overdue.

But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet.

"But electing a liar, misogynist, racist, populist pig like Trump, was falling for a false prophet."

Well... I rest my case :)

You'd be better to plead "no contest". He is what he is.

If you prefer a leader like that - and clearly over half of Americans do - then it was the right thing to do.

Everyone is making the mistake of viewing American politics through a Kiwi lens. It won't work - you'll get the wrong answer.

Only about 25% of eligible US voters cast a vote for Trump and he lost the popular vote - so it's not true to state that "clearly over half of Americans" prefer a leader like that.

It'd be better (IMO) if "post truth" myth wasn't used in debate here.

He won enough votes, however you or the system choose to define them - which is all that matters.

It does not alter the fact that if you try and understand why he won without accepting that Americans have different values and views from New Zealanders, you'll just get frustrated.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1697392 1-Jan-2017 23:53

Geektastic:

He won enough votes, however you or the system choose to define them - which is all that matters.

It does not alter the fact that if you try and understand why he won without accepting that Americans have different values and views from New Zealanders, you'll just get frustrated.

I'm not disputing that he won by the rules. I do dispute your comment that "that "clearly over half of Americans" prefer a leader like that".

Are you big enough to admit that isn't true?

tdgeek

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#1697427 2-Jan-2017 09:37

The first tangible issue for post 20 Jan is now on the table. Obama's sanctions against Russia are supported by the GOP, even to the point that they said it was long overdue. Contrast that with Trump who says Putin a better leader than Obama and he wants to build relations.

While he has backtracked on almost every campaign promise or hardline approach, and also notably been silent on that, this is a brick wall. He stands alone in supporting Putin. He can either change tack and accept the sanctions, or he can remove them. Both options are fraught with "this is what the US public are really getting"

Hopefully on 20 Jan someone will start a new thread, "How is Trump Going?"

networkn

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#1697444 2-Jan-2017 10:27

He won enough votes, however you or the system choose to define them - which is all that matters.

It does not alter the fact that if you try and understand why he won without accepting that Americans have different values and views from New Zealanders, you'll just get frustrated.

You are wasting your breath, his mind is made up, no amount of logic is going overpower all that emotion.

networkn

Networkn
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#1697476 2-Jan-2017 10:32

tdgeek:

The first tangible issue for post 20 Jan is now on the table. Obama's sanctions against Russia are supported by the GOP, even to the point that they said it was long overdue. Contrast that with Trump who says Putin a better leader than Obama and he wants to build relations.

All the time whilst challenging Putin to an Arms race. I am not sure how the two are compatible.

frankv

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#1697478 2-Jan-2017 10:33

JimsonWeed:

Anyhow, you said "I don't lie"

Everyone says "I don't lie". Ask any Cretan.

JimsonWeed

126 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#1697487 2-Jan-2017 11:02

networkn:

He won enough votes, however you or the system choose to define them - which is all that matters.

It does not alter the fact that if you try and understand why he won without accepting that Americans have different values and views from New Zealanders, you'll just get frustrated.

You are wasting your breath, his mind is made up, no amount of logic is going overpower all that emotion.

I can assure you... it's something other than emotion. Nonetheless, you right that you will never get through to someone like that with any amount of logic or reason. Anyhow, I'm done with this thread.

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