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quickymart
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  #3177480 4-Jan-2024 07:19
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Hammerer:

 

Here we go again. The tone and tenor goes against Trump but he still grows his support.

 

So much of what I’m reading and hearing are facile arguments and smug attitudes that continue to denigrate Trump supporters without engaging with their real concerns. AFAIK, this is the main reason he slipped through to became President the first time.

 

Is there a widely popular alternative candidate from either side of the house?

 

While many economic indicators are positive for Biden, measures of voter attitudes, such as consumer confidence, are generally more negative.

 

Dubious legal methods to impede him, such as removing him from ballots before he is convicted of insurrection, only strengthens his position.

 

 

I think Nikki Haley could be a possible contender (and certainly better for America) if Trump and co would just get out of the way. But of course, he's so selfish and self-centred he would never do that. De Santis is just a hyped-up Trump wannabe who appeals to a portion of the base, but not the entire electorate.

 

Bear in mind that a lot of Trump supporters have been spoon-fed nothing but a diet of his lies (think "this is a witch hunt", "the election was stolen", "everyone is out to get me", etc etc) for years that they're totally accustomed to it now. As far as I can tell, their concerns mostly consist of "beating the libs", "Trump is a victim, we can't have that" and...uh...maybe you can help me out here? It's also important to remember that his endless attitude of victimhood/settling scores and the nonsense he spews forth turns off almost all Democrats and a sizeable portion of Independents - two groups Trump hasn't even tried to reach out to. All he cares about is his base and to hell with everyone else.

 

On the Democratic side I like Gavin Newsom but he's categorically said he won't run against Biden in 2024.

 

Also: https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/trumps-claims-liz-cheney-collapse-embarrassing-fashion-rcna132028 >> LOL nice try, tryhard.

 

Coincidentally I'm reading her book at the moment. Very interesting reading indeed.


Sideface
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  #3177490 4-Jan-2024 09:59
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Trump New Year summarised :

 

 

 





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quickymart
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  #3177526 4-Jan-2024 11:36
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Hammerer:

 

Dubious legal methods to impede him, such as removing him from ballots before he is convicted of insurrection, only strengthens his position.

 

 

Just had this story pointed out to me - a counter-view as to why his supporters arguments that removing him from the ballot is "undemocratic" is not correct:

 

https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/trump-maine-ballot-disqualification

 

 


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  #3177527 4-Jan-2024 11:39
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The NY Times - Trump Asks Supreme Court to Keep Him on Colorado Ballot

 

breaking

 


Former President Donald J. Trump asked the U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday to keep him on the primary ballot in Colorado, appealing an explosive ruling from the state Supreme Court declaring him ineligible based on his efforts to overturn the 2020 election that culminated in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.

 

The move adds to the growing pressure on the U.S. Supreme Court to act, given the number of challenges to Mr. Trump’s eligibility and the need for a nationwide resolution of the question as the primaries approach.

 

Mr. Trump’s petition seeking review of the state court’s ruling followed a similar one last week from the Colorado Republican Party. 

 





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Hammerer
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  #3177902 5-Jan-2024 01:33
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quickymart:

 

Hammerer:

 

Dubious legal methods to impede him, such as removing him from ballots before he is convicted of insurrection, only strengthens his position.

 

 

Just had this story pointed out to me - a counter-view as to why his supporters arguments that removing him from the ballot is "undemocratic" is not correct:

 

https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/trump-maine-ballot-disqualification

 

 

I’m very aware of the technical arguments about legality but that is not a “counter-view” to all the arguments put forward against doing this. The ballot bans are “dubious” in every sense of the word: suspect or not honest when these appear as partisan actions e.g. Democrat official; less certain of outcome as it appears to be increasing Trump support and will likely be only work in progress until the Supreme Court rules; and still questionable ethically and morally, e.g. why not let the voters decide? 


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  #3177905 5-Jan-2024 06:44
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The NY Times - Trump Received Millions From Foreign Governments as President, Report Finds

 

04 Jan 2024

 


Donald J. Trump’s businesses received at least $7.8 million from 20 foreign governments during his presidency, according to new documents released by House Democrats on Thursday that show how much he received from overseas transactions while he was in the White House, most of it from China.

 

The transactions, detailed in a 156-page report called “White House For Sale” that was produced by Democrats on the House Oversight Committee, offer concrete evidence that the former president engaged in the kind of conduct that House Republicans have labored, so far unsuccessfully, to prove that President Biden did as they work to build an impeachment case against him.

 

 

 

 

EDIT:  The numbers :

 





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Rikkitic
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  #3177906 5-Jan-2024 06:57
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Hammerer:

 

I’m very aware of the technical arguments about legality but that is not a “counter-view” to all the arguments put forward against doing this. The ballot bans are “dubious” in every sense of the word: suspect or not honest when these appear as partisan actions e.g. Democrat official; less certain of outcome as it appears to be increasing Trump support and will likely be only work in progress until the Supreme Court rules; and still questionable ethically and morally, e.g. why not let the voters decide? 

 

 

Why not let the law decide? Whether some people like it or not, the 14th amendment exists. It is part of the US constitution. If it is bad law, it can be repealed, just like the 18th amendment was. Until that happens, it remains the law of the land. Section 3 does not say that someone has to be convicted of insurrection in a court of law to be disqualified. It just says someone has to have participated in insurrection. There is nothing at all ‘dubious’ about the actions of the courts and State officials in banning Trump. They are simply following the law, as they are supposed to. 
 





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Sideface
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  #3177909 5-Jan-2024 07:41
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The NY Times - Opinion - Fear of MAGA should not sway the Supreme Court  (unlocked link to full article)

 

David French - 04 Jan 2024  (short extract)

 


This is where we are, and have now been for years: The Trump movement commits threats, violence and lies. And then it tries to escape accountability for those acts through more threats, more violence and more lies. 

 

At the heart of the “but the consequences" argument against disqualification is a confession that if we hold Trump accountable for his fomenting violence on Jan. 6, he might foment additional violence now.

 

Enough. It’s time to apply the plain language of the Constitution to Trump’s actions and remove him from the ballot - without fear of the consequences. Republics are not maintained by cowardice. ...

 





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  #3177926 5-Jan-2024 10:19
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RawStory - Trump targets E. Jean Carroll in Truth Social posting spree​ 

 

04 Jan 2024

 


Donald Trump, just hours after his name appeared in newly unsealed court documents linked to accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein, attacked E. Jean Carroll Thursday morning in 31 Truth Social posts shared in just 26 minutes.

 

Trump didn't write a word, but shared opinion pieces from multiple conservative sites attacking the woman who accused him of raping her and then defaming her.  ...

 

Trump was found liable of sexually abusing Carroll and then defaming her last year, and was ordered to pay $5 million. A second trial regarding another defamation is set to start this month.

 

He has already been found liable in the upcoming case, and the trial is largely to decide on damages.

 

 

 

Trump is again behaving as a childish misogynistic sociopath, whilst awaiting a court case that will probably not go well for him.  🙄





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geekIT
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  #3177929 5-Jan-2024 10:33
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Sideface:

 

The NY Times - Opinion - Fear of MAGA should not sway the Supreme Court  (unlocked link to full article)

 

David French - 04 Jan 2024  (short extract)

 

If you want a simply expressed, but at the same time, clear and succinct, explanation of the 14th Amendment issue, I highly recommend you read the article linked above by Sideface. 

 

It impressed me so much I copied the page.





'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.' Voltaire

 

'If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer.' Stevie Wonder - 'Superstition'

 

 


quickymart
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  #3177930 5-Jan-2024 11:13
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https://archive.ph/1H0vW >> this opinion piece (by the same bloke) is quite interesting too.

 

Edit: also, another opinion piece - this one about how Mitch McConnell could have done more than he did to stop Trump, but did next-to-nothing (in reality, closer to nothing):

 

https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/mitch-mcconnell-legacies-roe-trump-january-6th

 

 


gzt

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  #3177932 5-Jan-2024 11:45
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A motion to remove Trump from ballot based on the insurrection clause was inevitable with chances of it happening around 51:1 simply based on the number of electrical colleges. Likewise it's almost 100% certain any successful case will be appealed.

Rikkitic
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  #3178033 5-Jan-2024 14:03
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What is at issue here is the rule of law. If America is not a nation of laws, then it is just an oversize banana republic where arbitrary justice is meted out by a tinpot dictator.

 

Enforcement of the law should not be conditional. Of course that is not always the case, but that does not negate the principle. If Trump broke the law, he should be held to account. Did he break this particular law? According to the judgement of at least some courts and officials, the answer is yes. In that case, it is right and proper that he be removed from the ballot in those states where this applies. This remedy should not be contingent on how much it will outrage his supporters or affect the election.

 

Because America is a nation of laws, there are procedures for appealing legal judgements. Ultimately the highest legal authority in the country is the Supreme Court. Whatever verdict it renders is the final word. Until then the issue is sub judice

 

The Supreme Court is the ultimate authority of the American system of justice. If the justices are corrupt, or inadequately informed, or prejudiced, or just wrong, makes no difference. Their word, quite literally, is law. That is the American system. If it is no longer fit for purpose, it should be changed. Congress can do that. Justices can be impeached. But the system itself must be respected, whether the decisions it issues are agreed with or not. The alternative is anarchy, and that really is the end of democracy.

 

 





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  #3178052 5-Jan-2024 15:19
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geekIT:

 

Sideface:

 

The NY Times - Opinion - Fear of MAGA should not sway the Supreme Court  (unlocked link to full article)

 

David French - 04 Jan 2024  (short extract)

 

If you want a simply expressed, but at the same time, clear and succinct, explanation of the 14th Amendment issue, I highly recommend you read the article linked above by Sideface. 

 

It impressed me so much I copied the page.

 

 

Thanks. Excellent article, expressed in plain English language.

 

Unfortunately Trump and die hard Trumpians don’t understand even basic English, written or spoken. Those that do are all mentioned in “Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders” just under Donald J. Trump. 





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Rikkitic
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  #3178056 5-Jan-2024 15:37
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FineWine:

 

Thanks. Excellent article, expressed in plain English language.

 

Unfortunately Trump and die hard Trumpians don’t understand even basic English, written or spoken. Those that do are all mentioned in “Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders” just under Donald J. Trump. 

 

 

An entire DSM devoted only to Trump could probably be produced with the material now available!

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


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