Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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tdgeek

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#1506390 5-Mar-2016 10:17

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joker97:

Sideface:

joker97: <snip> [ 50% of America hate Clinton, swearing never to vote for her. ]

What is your source?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/22/poll-59-percent-americans-say-hillary-clinton-dishonest/

the bit about swearing not to vote for her comes from my American friends. whether that's true or not .... -> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/1/hillary-clinton-cant-count-on-bernie-sanders-suppo/

So, its clear we will probably have a Clinton vs Trump election. And its not about who they think is best, its about who has less hate going' on?

(Still waiting for real and genuine policy discussions to occur. Soon I guess, maybe)

SaltyNZ

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#1506392 5-Mar-2016 10:32

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gzt: Gillard, well you may or may not have a point but given the state of the Australian Labour Party at that point it was a bit of a hospital pass and could have gone either way.

Indeed. With the majority she started with - 1, IIRC, by getting 2 particularly obnoxious Tasmanian Independents on board - I thought she wouldn't last the year. In fact she made it nearly to the next election before Rudd gave her back her knife. It's really impossible to say how she might have done had the rest of the Labor party not been in such a shambles.

Clark in particular to denigrate that level of political achievement I think you should look again.

I never voted for her, and I strongly disliked her 'I know whats best, kiddies, so shut up and like it' attitude towards the end. But that that's not a unique Helen Clarke trait, nor even is it necessarily wrong. She was a strong, effective leader under whose government a lot of important things got done, or at least begun.

So, to say Gillard and Clarke were terrible... well, it's line ball with Gillard but I don't think anyone else would have done any better under the circumstances, and it's just plain wrong about Clarke.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Batman

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#1506399 5-Mar-2016 10:53

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tdgeek:
joker97:

Sideface:

joker97: <snip> [ 50% of America hate Clinton, swearing never to vote for her. ]

What is your source?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/22/poll-59-percent-americans-say-hillary-clinton-dishonest/

the bit about swearing not to vote for her comes from my American friends. whether that's true or not .... -> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/1/hillary-clinton-cant-count-on-bernie-sanders-suppo/

So, its clear we will probably have a Clinton vs Trump election. And its not about who they think is best, its about who has less hate going' on?

(Still waiting for real and genuine policy discussions to occur. Soon I guess, maybe)

That's why I was secretly laughing inside when someone said trump made a deal to support Hilary so that Hilary can walk over him and take the white house.

I didn't know at that time the Americans that were being mocked by trump would actually vote him! The more he mocked them the more they voted for him!

He's my prime pick for the top job based on my current analysis. Maybe that's why I've been having nightmares these last few nights.

Rikkitic

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#1506472 5-Mar-2016 14:48

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joker97: Are you asking me?

I am just pointing out that voters are being discussed as if women are not part of the equation, at least not as voters. The tone seems to suggest that voting is entirely a male thing and women are not even being taken into account. Here are some quotes:

50% of America hate Clinton, swearing never to vote for her.
she's a woman
she's married to an ex-president that all republicans hated
The same people who distrusted an African American president - and blocked most of his legislation - would probably also mistrust a female president.
So gender bias could easily favor Trump.
I believe if the Republicans had a truly strong (Male) candidate, that Hillary would stand very little chance of getting elected.
You think the republicans will put up with an african-american and then a woman???

I'm not talking about the references to the candidates, but to the electorate. If 50% of America hate Clinton, does that mean just the men? If the fact that she's a woman is a problem, is it a problem for the majority of all voters, or just male voters? Did all Republicans hate her husband, or was that the male ones? If gender bias would favour Trump, does that means female voters are also gender biased against women? If a strong Republican male candidate would win, would the votes come from women or only men? Will all Republicans have a problem with a woman, or just the male ones? To my ear at least, it sounds like many of the references to 'voters' are actually referring to 'male voters'. I'm just inserting a reminder that women also vote, even Republican women. I can imagine Republican women not voting for Hilary for a whole raft of reasons, but I don't think gender bias is likely to be a dominant one. The reasons cited above strike me as male reasons, not voter reasons. That is all.

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blakamin

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#1506476 5-Mar-2016 14:59

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Rikkitic:

{snip} The reasons cited above strike me as male reasons, not voter reasons. That is all.

I was explaining the reasons I've heard all last week on many, varying, US podcasts (from comedy to news to tech), which may or may not be correct...

The fact Trump has made it this far seems to point to the fact that at least some of those points ARE correct, unfortunately.

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#1506480 5-Mar-2016 15:07

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"Running Backwards and in High Heels"

Just Google "women voters gender bias" and you will get a huge amount of material:

Two random examples:

Is Hillary losing the women’s vote?

EXTRACTS

"... Clinton’s 2016 gender gap so far is much like her gender gap in the 2008 presidential primaries, when nine percent more women voted for her than did men."

"There’s a gender gap for party identification, as well. 37 percent of women are Democrats compared to 26 percent of men ...
That didn’t happen because more women became Democrats. Rather, since the 1960s men have become increasingly conservative and moved into the Republican Party."

Gender bias in the voting booth?

Maybe not. This 2008 US study shows that female voters aren't voting by gender:

"Just 17 percent of women (compared to 14 percent of men) say they would be more likely to vote for the female if they liked a male and a female candidate equally."

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#1506518 5-Mar-2016 16:29

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Rikkitic:

joker97: Are you asking me?

I am just pointing out that voters are being discussed as if women are not part of the equation, at least not as voters. The tone seems to suggest that voting is entirely a male thing and women are not even being taken into account. Here are some quotes: 50% of America hate Clinton, swearing never to vote for her.
she's a woman
she's married to an ex-president that all republicans hated
The same people who distrusted an African American president - and blocked most of his legislation - would probably also mistrust a female president.
So gender bias could easily favor Trump.
I believe if the Republicans had a truly strong (Male) candidate, that Hillary would stand very little chance of getting elected.
You think the republicans will put up with an african-american and then a woman??? I'm not talking about the references to the candidates, but to the electorate. If 50% of America hate Clinton, does that mean just the men? If the fact that she's a woman is a problem, is it a problem for the majority of all voters, or just male voters? Did all Republicans hate her husband, or was that the male ones? If gender bias would favour Trump, does that means female voters are also gender biased against women? If a strong Republican male candidate would win, would the votes come from women or only men? Will all Republicans have a problem with a woman, or just the male ones? To my ear at least, it sounds like many of the references to 'voters' are actually referring to 'male voters'. I'm just inserting a reminder that women also vote, even Republican women. I can imagine Republican women not voting for Hilary for a whole raft of reasons, but I don't think gender bias is likely to be a dominant one. The reasons cited above strike me as male reasons, not voter reasons. That is all.

1. Can you quote me ONCE where I had mentioned ANY dislike of women leaders.

2. I'm not sure if you can do maths. If ALL Clinton haters are males, then EVERY female would be the only ones left voting for Sanders, Cruz, Trump, Rubio.

3. Anyway, I'm not an American. Why don't you ask an American?

Rikkitic

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#1506521 5-Mar-2016 16:39

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I'm not attacking you, man, I was just making a general point. Don't take it so personal.

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networkn

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#1506583 5-Mar-2016 19:44

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Rikkitic:

What interests me about this line of the thread is how the male-centric comments about women seem to imply that there are no woman voters! The statements are all about how 'voters' (at least 'Republican voters') won't accept a female leader for whatever reason. Here is a newsflash, people: half of those voters, including the Republicans, are, in fact, women. Or are you suggesting that little wifie will just stay home or meekly do whatever her all-powerful man tells her to?

Have you ever BEEN to America? A lot of women voters in the USA wouldn't vote for a woman for the exact reason the men wouldn't. It might surprise you to realize that not every man and woman in any household hold opposing views. I know plenty of strong independent women who don't think a woman should be president.

gzt

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#1506603 5-Mar-2016 20:29

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Different polls put the female/female figure anywhere between 75-95%. So either way, it is the vast majority. Men actually tend to be higher/more willing in most of those polls. Again, the vast majority.

Rikkitic

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#1506621 5-Mar-2016 21:09

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networkn:

Have you ever BEEN to America? A lot of women voters in the USA wouldn't vote for a woman for the exact reason the men wouldn't. It might surprise you to realize that not every man and woman in any household hold opposing views. I know plenty of strong independent women who don't think a woman should be president.

Actually, I grew up there. I would be very interested to ask some of those strong, independent women just why they don't think a woman should be president. Just because she is a woman? Come on, now, even in America this is the 21st century.

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networkn

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#1506642 5-Mar-2016 22:16

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Rikkitic:

networkn:

Have you ever BEEN to America? A lot of women voters in the USA wouldn't vote for a woman for the exact reason the men wouldn't. It might surprise you to realize that not every man and woman in any household hold opposing views. I know plenty of strong independent women who don't think a woman should be president.

Actually, I grew up there. I would be very interested to ask some of those strong, independent women just why they don't think a woman should be president. Just because she is a woman? Come on, now, even in America this is the 21st century.

I am struggling to reconcile your "experience" with your "opinion". The US is one of the most behind the times conservative countries in the world. I think you would find PLENTY of women in the South and Middle American states who wouldn't vote for a woman if their lives depended on it. Places like California ("hippy states") tend to be a little more progressive.

I also need you to understand, I am not condoning, nor supporting this view, simply reporting my recent experience and conversations and opinions that have been shared with me by American women, and American men who are happy to talk about their wives politics.

I am not saying she won't get any votes, obviously, that simply isn't the case.

MikeB4

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#1506643 5-Mar-2016 22:22

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On a different note about the US election, they gained independence, established their Republic then had a meeting to develop the must confused, convoluted and expensive electoral system ever.

Rikkitic

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#1506646 5-Mar-2016 22:35

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The US population is over 320 million. There are plenty of conservative fundamentalists of both sexes. Also lots of ultra-liberals. It all depends on who you talk to. I don't see your experience or mine providing a definitive picture or being in any way contradictory.

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SJB

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#1506650 5-Mar-2016 22:53

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MikeB4: On a different note about the US election, they gained independence, established their Republic then had a meeting to develop the must confused, convoluted and expensive electoral system ever.

The founding fathers probably didn't anticipate there would be only 2 political parties. That's one of the problems.

They also didn't anticipate people walking into a KFC carrying a semi automatic weapon under the right to bear arms.

So they certainly made one or two bloopers.

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