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  # 1713128 31-Jan-2017 09:54
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Geektastic:

 

As life gets more difficult for terrorists to attack more obvious targets, they will look for other, easier ones. There is a real risk that one day, NZ will pop up as a target. Westerners are Westerners. The US Embassy here is as good a target as the one in Tanzania (98) or even Manila (Nov 16).

 

 

No. New Zealand won't be a target, any more than Tanzania or the Philippines was a target. The USA, and therefore indirectly their representatives around the world, will continue to be the target. It's important that NZ, and other Western countries, are very clear about disassociating themselves from and opposing this kind of US policy.

 

 


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  # 1713139 31-Jan-2017 10:16
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Brickbat to Jack Tame for trying to egg Bill English on to a more substantive criticism of Trump's ban. We have no influence or pull. And when we get in a tariff discussion or trade, the last thing we want is issues like that. If the US needed us as much as we need them, then yes, we do have influence, so use it, but we dont.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1713152 31-Jan-2017 10:36
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

Agree. I dont think he will get to 2020. he has low popularity, thats expected. But he is showing his capability, as I think that the Muslim ban is the first piece of implemented action to date. Everyone in this thread could have done better. GOP will lose faith, voters will lose faith. I'm unsure how a no confidence vote/scenario plays out in the US system

 

 

I don't think there is such a thing, he'd be the ultimate lame duck and should (but with Trump - who knows?) resign.

 

If he loses his marbles (quite possible - if not already a fact) he can be removed from office using the 24th Amendment.  It would take a very brave person to start that process.  Right or wrong, they'd go down in history in a very big way. Whether they were the greatest American traitor or hero would still be argued in 100 years time, if the USA survived that long.


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  # 1713153 31-Jan-2017 10:40
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I think Reagan lost his marbles during his last years in office, but there were people around him to take up the slack, just as there were to keep Nixon's finger off the button when he was drunk.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1713178 31-Jan-2017 10:46
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Geektastic:
Fred99:  

 

And did they advise that NZ should ban immigrants / refugees based on religion, ban all visits by people of certain nationalities, compel authorities to produce lists for publication of "aliens" committing crimes, argue that we should torture political prisoners, target to kill the families and children of terrorists?

 

 


It certainly wouldn't bother me if it had suggested that, and yes travel restrictions were on the list of possible responses.

 

Then perhaps you're as bad as "the enemy".  There's not even a valid argument that "they started it" to excuse Trump's endorsement of atrocity.


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  # 1713195 31-Jan-2017 11:00
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Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Agree. I dont think he will get to 2020. he has low popularity, thats expected. But he is showing his capability, as I think that the Muslim ban is the first piece of implemented action to date. Everyone in this thread could have done better. GOP will lose faith, voters will lose faith. I'm unsure how a no confidence vote/scenario plays out in the US system

 

 

I don't think there is such a thing, he'd be the ultimate lame duck and should (but with Trump - who knows?) resign.

 

If he loses his marbles (quite possible - if not already a fact) he can be removed from office using the 24th Amendment.  It would take a very brave person to start that process.  Right or wrong, they'd go down in history in a very big way. Whether they were the greatest American traitor or hero would still be argued in 100 years time, if the USA survived that long.

 

 

Lets say that the ban mismanagement and ructions inside GOP occurred on a semi regular basis. Its not normal that senators disagree in public with the POTUS. So, lets say this is ongoing with this and other msmanaged policy implementations. And continual public outcry over the growing negative reaction to USA and Americans globally. At some point, surely the US system can cater for a scenario where the bulk of the ruling party do not want the POTUS to continue due to damage to the USA? Elsewhere there is a vote of no confidence.


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  # 1713201 31-Jan-2017 11:14
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tdgeek:

 

Brickbat to Jack Tame for trying to egg Bill English on to a more substantive criticism of Trump's ban. We have no influence or pull. And when we get in a tariff discussion or trade, the last thing we want is issues like that. If the US needed us as much as we need them, then yes, we do have influence, so use it, but we dont.

 

 

I didn't see the interview, but...

 

1. It's a journalist's job to get the details rather than accept a politician's soundbites

 

2. It's a journalist's job to entertain nowadays.

 

3. I don't think our position on anything makes much difference with trade to the USA (e.g. Lange and nuclear ships)

 

4. Should we give up our principles for money? (e.g. Lange and Rainbow Warrior French spies)

 

5. Someone needs to lead the small countries who individually don't have any influence, but collectively are significant.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1713212 31-Jan-2017 11:44
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Rikkitic:

 

I think Reagan lost his marbles during his last years in office, but there were people around him to take up the slack, just as there were to keep Nixon's finger off the button when he was drunk.

 

 

I have little doubt that Reagan was. In the late '80s I had dinner with a group of medical specialists and medical school professors in the US, the topic came up, almost caused a riot, was vehemently denied by almost all until a respected prof emeritus intervened and convinced everybody that he probably was suffering dementia. At that time he was displaying tremor - similar to parkinsonism but it wasn't, weariness, and sometimes making impetuous comments that were inappropriate and out of character.


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  # 1713213 31-Jan-2017 11:45
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frankv:

 

tdgeek:

 

Brickbat to Jack Tame for trying to egg Bill English on to a more substantive criticism of Trump's ban. We have no influence or pull. And when we get in a tariff discussion or trade, the last thing we want is issues like that. If the US needed us as much as we need them, then yes, we do have influence, so use it, but we dont.

 

 

I didn't see the interview, but...

 

1. It's a journalist's job to get the details rather than accept a politician's soundbites

 

2. It's a journalist's job to entertain nowadays.

 

3. I don't think our position on anything makes much difference with trade to the USA (e.g. Lange and nuclear ships)

 

4. Should we give up our principles for money? (e.g. Lange and Rainbow Warrior French spies)

 

5. Someone needs to lead the small countries who individually don't have any influence, but collectively are significant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We were affected by the nuclear issue. Potentially a factor of X10 if Trump gets wind of it. We have stated we disagree, thats enough for little us. If we were big, we would talk big back, but it ain't worth it as there is a zero positive for us, only a possible/likely negative. Our dealings with France then cannot compare to ours with the US now

 

The interview I took as Jack being big and pushy, looking for the big scoop of the day. The soundbites from English were good.

 

Asia, Europe, UK,  The Queen (they are meeting soon), they are significant and can make a difference


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  # 1713214 31-Jan-2017 11:57
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Trump meeting the Queen is meaningless.  She's officially met with some of the worst tyrants to plague the planet during her reign, so if Trump thinks he's being "honored" - he's mistaken.  Unfortunately the celebrity focused US media and public may not see it that way.

 

Hence there's a point to an otherwise pointless referendum in the UK to "Ban Trump" - to send the signal that Trump is greatly disliked.


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  # 1713218 31-Jan-2017 12:10
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Fred99:

 

Trump meeting the Queen is meaningless.  She's officially met with some of the worst tyrants to plague the planet during her reign, so if Trump thinks he's being "honored" - he's mistaken.  Unfortunately the celebrity focused US media and public may not see it that way.

 

Hence there's a point to an otherwise pointless referendum in the UK to "Ban Trump" - to send the signal that Trump is greatly disliked.

 

 

It may not be meaningless, she will say what needs to be said, she wont serve tea and scones and smile. She will I am sure voice her concerns.

 

Sure the petition is meaningless, but its not a petition to change him its a show of distaste and concern. He gets a negative show from within his party. he is unpopular globally.

 

It all adds up. It wont affect him much, at least not until he realises he cannot fix much at all, then he will blame everyone else. But it will infuriate GOP and the American public, thats where the pressure will come from 


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  # 1713219 31-Jan-2017 12:11
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tdgeek:

 

We have stated we disagree, thats enough for little us. If we were big, we would talk big back, but it ain't worth it as there is a zero positive for us, only a possible/likely negative. Our dealings with France then cannot compare to ours with the US now

 

 

 

 

Without wanting to be confrontational (honest), I just can't agree with this. I think I understand the point you are making, but there is a bigger one you are missing. What you are saying is a cop-out, the same excuse that always gets dished up for doing nothing: We don't count, no-one will listen anyway, we can't make a difference, we are too insignificant, etc. ad nauseum. 

 

Why put any money in a charity box? It won't make a difference. It is too little to help. Why venture your opinion on this forum, or anywhere else? Your voice doesn't matter. You are unimportant. Why vote? Why do anything at all? None of us has the power to change things.

 

If all the small countries of the world, or even just a significant minority of them, said 'we are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore', it would make a difference. It would be listened to. Mice that roar might not be able to defeat the US in an armed conflict, but that is not what it is about. When legions of mice stand together, and go 'shame', even the Trumps of the world have to listen. We are not powerless unless we refuse to speak up because we are afraid of being deprived of a few trade crumbs. In a situation like we have today, it is more important than ever that small countries do speak up. Instead of cowering in the shadows, we ought to be leading the way.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1713224 31-Jan-2017 12:21
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Rikkitic:

 

tdgeek:

 

We have stated we disagree, thats enough for little us. If we were big, we would talk big back, but it ain't worth it as there is a zero positive for us, only a possible/likely negative. Our dealings with France then cannot compare to ours with the US now

 

 

 

 

Without wanting to be confrontational (honest), I just can't agree with this. I think I understand the point you are making, but there is a bigger one you are missing. What you are saying is a cop-out, the same excuse that always gets dished up for doing nothing: We don't count, no-one will listen anyway, we can't make a difference, we are too insignificant, etc. ad nauseum. 

 

Why put any money in a charity box? It won't make a difference. It is too little to help. Why venture your opinion on this forum, or anywhere else? Your voice doesn't matter. You are unimportant. Why vote? Why do anything at all? None of us has the power to change things.

 

If all the small countries of the world, or even just a significant minority of them, said 'we are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore', it would make a difference. It would be listened to. Mice that roar might not be able to defeat the US in an armed conflict, but that is not what it is about. When legions of mice stand together, and go 'shame', even the Trumps of the world have to listen. We are not powerless unless we refuse to speak up because we are afraid of being deprived of a few trade crumbs. In a situation like we have today, it is more important than ever that small countries do speak up. Instead of cowering in the shadows, we ought to be leading the way.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough

 

But we have said something, we have said we disagree with the policy. That will never happen here. McCully was a little more forceful, but still mild.

 

So with that in mind I am sure many little countries are saying the same thing, we don't need to yell and say its a stupid policy made by an idiot, we can just say we do not agree with it, many times over. We cannot say we wont take it anymore as that is a lie, as we cannot do anything about it. Only Trump can, or the GOP can or the US public can. So we are showing many voices. I dont honeslty feel that raising hell or high water will add any value. We disagree with you. We have enough class and dignity to say that, no need to start bashing walls. 

 

Thats my personal opinion. If we had more power we can use more power. Or we can cut our noses off to spite our face, by being tough, then we get penalised.

 

Bottom line, he won't last


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  # 1713244 31-Jan-2017 13:07
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DOJ Attorney General tells her staff to not defend Trump over the ban. And that she feels it may not be lawful or constitutional.

 

So DOJ vs Trump

 

Now, the AG is out soon, and appointed by Obama, and no doubt the new guy will see it differently as he was apppointed by Trump. Just another example of the swamp being alive and well. The internal swamp at least.


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  # 1713301 31-Jan-2017 14:57
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Any British passport holder can vote in this referendum:

Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.

"Donald Trump should be allowed to enter the UK in his capacity as head of the US Government, but he should not be invited to make an official State Visit because it would cause embarrassment to Her Majesty the Queen."

 

I feel better already    wink





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