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Sideface
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  #1713627 1-Feb-2017 06:42
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Fred99:

 

<snip>

 

Latest Gallup poll:

 

 

I believe that's not just an unprecedented high disapproval rating, but at over 50% it's unprecedented by a huge margin.

 

<snip>

 

 

 

 





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tdgeek
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  #1713630 1-Feb-2017 07:18
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gzt:
tdgeek:
nakedmolerat:

 

Anyone else got their popcorn yet? This is fun.

 



It is fun.i expected him to be lousy, mess things up, upset people, but not this much this soon. He isn't rally a threat, he is proving that. GOP will be waiting for the right mix, when enough voters cry out in shame, then they will move in.

But I'm unsure what the average republican supporter thinks so far

Today we have New Zealand born people with dual citizenship with one of the many banned countries being denied travel to the USA. I doubt they think it's funny. Same with the surgeon booked to attend a medical conference.

That is clearly going to impact on medical and scientific exchange and as such it will affect everyone in New Zealand directy.

 

I know its not funny for those affected, but its also low collateral damage for a situation that will go a long way to resolving the ban exemptions, and ousting Trump. The latter is most important


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  #1713631 1-Feb-2017 07:21
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Geektastic:

 

I see that six of the seven countries on the Trump list also ban visitors based on nationality...!

 

 

The constant media misinformation as to why these 7 countries where chosen really shows the problem with the media. They're aginst Trump even when he's changed very little.

 

In December Obama introduced the legislation naming those 7 countries and excluding people who were from them or had visited them. When I renewed by US ESTA at the end of December I was specifically asked if I had visted them, and if so I would be excluded from a visa waiver / ESTA and would need to apply for a visa to visit the US even on a NZ passport. This had nothing to do with whether I was born there, it was simply whether I had been there.

 

So why were those 7 countries tagetted? Sure Trump may have a hotel or golf course in many, but the real reason was simply because those countries had already been identified and restrictions already put in place by Obama. He simply extended that.

 

 


vexxxboy
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  #1713633 1-Feb-2017 07:34
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sbiddle:

 

Geektastic:

 

I see that six of the seven countries on the Trump list also ban visitors based on nationality...!

 

 

The constant media misinformation as to why these 7 countries where chosen really shows the problem with the media. They're aginst Trump even when he's changed very little.

 

In December Obama introduced the legislation naming those 7 countries and excluding people who were from them or had visited them. When I renewed by US ESTA at the end of December I was specifically asked if I had visted them, and if so I would be excluded from a visa waiver / ESTA and would need to apply for a visa to visit the US even on a NZ passport. This had nothing to do with whether I was born there, it was simply whether I had been there.

 

So why were those 7 countries tagetted? Sure Trump may have a hotel or golf course in many, but the real reason was simply because those countries had already been identified and restrictions already put in place by Obama. He simply extended that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

no Obama never stopped people from those countries coming in, what happened was that 2 refugees from Iraq were let in , went to Kentucky i think, and then there fingerprints  were found on parts of IED's  that blew up  usa serviceman in Iraq, they were deported and Obama then issued an order that because of that all people from those 7 countries were subject to more stringent entry tests , so for 6 months even though visa's were still granted, people were delayed while they were vetted more thoroughly than before. At no stage did the USA stop issuing Visa's to those countries they were just harder to get. Trump is just using alternative facts again.





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gzt

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  #1713635 1-Feb-2017 07:42
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sbiddle:

Geektastic:


I see that six of the seven countries on the Trump list also ban visitors based on nationality...!



The constant media misinformation as to why these 7 countries where chosen really shows the problem with the media. They're aginst Trump even when he's changed very little.


In December Obama introduced the legislation naming those 7 countries and excluding people who were from them or had visited them. When I renewed by US ESTA at the end of December I was specifically asked if I had visted them, and if so I would be excluded from a visa waiver / ESTA and would need to apply for a visa to visit the US even on a NZ passport. This had nothing to do with whether I was born there, it was simply whether I had been there.


So why were those 7 countries tagetted? Sure Trump may have a hotel or golf course in many, but the real reason was simply because those countries had already been identified and restrictions already put in place by Obama. He simply extended that.


 


Can you provide an example of this (mainstream presumably) media misinformation? I'm genuinely interested.

To call this a simple extension I think vastly underestimates the impact. Also you point out that previous requirements were based on legislation. In contrast this current mess/situation originates directly from Trump's imagination, his close advisors and his pen.

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  #1713636 1-Feb-2017 07:43
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vexxxboy:

 

no Obama never stopped people from those countries coming in, what happened was that 2 refugees from Iraq were let in , went to Kentucky i think, and then there fingerprints  were found on parts of IED's  that blew up  usa serviceman in Iraq, they were deported and Obama then issued an order that because of that all people from those 7 countries were subject to more stringent entry tests , so for 6 months even though visa's were still granted, people were delayed while they were vetted more thoroughly than before. At no stage did the USA stop issuing Visa's to those countries they were just harder to get. Trump is just using alternative facts again.

 

 

I never said anywhere that Obama stopped the people from coming in. He didn't.

 

The point I made is that the media are looking for answers as to why those 7 countries were selected and can only come up with the fact he didn't have hotels and golf courses in them. The reasons those countries were selected for Trump's policy is because people from those countries (or other foreign passport holders who had merely visited those countries) were already subject to stricter visa policies that meant an interview for a visa even if you carry a passport from a VWP eligable country.


gzt

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  #1713639 1-Feb-2017 07:46
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sbiddle: The point I made is that the media are looking for answers as to why those 7 countries were selected and can only come up with the fact he has hotels and golf courses in them.

I really doubt that Trump has hotels or golf courses in any of those seven countries. The first time you said that I assumed it was an error but now with a second time it looks like you mean it.

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  #1713649 1-Feb-2017 07:55
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gzt:
sbiddle: The point I made is that the media are looking for answers as to why those 7 countries were selected and can only come up with the fact he has hotels and golf courses in them.

I really doubt that Trump has hotels or golf courses in any of those seven countries. The first time you said that I assumed it was an error but now with a second time it looks like you mean it.

 

Oops I didn't quite make that clear. What I meant to say was that he didn't have interests in those countries - but the media are saying other countries where people say are "terrorist" countries weren't selected because of his business interests.

 

Those countries were selected because they had already been identified. That's why no new countries were added at this time.

 

 


vexxxboy
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  #1713652 1-Feb-2017 08:05
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sbiddle:

 

gzt:
sbiddle: The point I made is that the media are looking for answers as to why those 7 countries were selected and can only come up with the fact he has hotels and golf courses in them.

I really doubt that Trump has hotels or golf courses in any of those seven countries. The first time you said that I assumed it was an error but now with a second time it looks like you mean it.

 

Oops I didn't quite make that clear. What I meant to say was that he didn't have interests in those countries - but the media are saying other countries where people say are "terrorist" countries weren't selected because of his business interests.

 

Those countries were selected because they had already been identified. That's why no new countries were added at this time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

but it is still disingenuous to say the Obama did the same thing when he didn't , that is the biggest problem with Trump, he always twists the truth and facts with everything he does. no wonder the media brought up the fact that he has business interest in those countries, he is his own worse enemy.





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  #1713654 1-Feb-2017 08:09
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vexxxboy:

 

sbiddle:

 

gzt:
sbiddle: The point I made is that the media are looking for answers as to why those 7 countries were selected and can only come up with the fact he has hotels and golf courses in them.

I really doubt that Trump has hotels or golf courses in any of those seven countries. The first time you said that I assumed it was an error but now with a second time it looks like you mean it.

 

Oops I didn't quite make that clear. What I meant to say was that he didn't have interests in those countries - but the media are saying other countries where people say are "terrorist" countries weren't selected because of his business interests.

 

Those countries were selected because they had already been identified. That's why no new countries were added at this time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

but it is still disingenuous to say the Obama did the same thing when he didn't , that is the biggest problem with Trump, he always twists the truth and facts with everything he does. no wonder the media brought up the fact that he has business interest in those countries, he is his own worse enemy.

 

 

I didn't say Obama did the same thing. I said those countries were selected by the Obama administration and restrictions put in place. They were not selected simply because of Trump's business interests which is something the media are trying to pitch.

 

If you were a NZ passport holder who had visited any of those countries as of last year you now need a visa to visit the US. Assuming the UK and US reports that nothing has changed for VWP countries this will mean business as usual for NZ passport holders if you have visited any of those countries since 2011 - you won't be blocked from entering the US under this new rule, but will continue to need to apply for a visa.

 

 


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  #1713660 1-Feb-2017 08:14
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vexxxboy:

 

<snip>

 

... that is the biggest problem with Trump, he always twists the truth and facts with everything he does. no wonder the media brought up the fact that he has business interest in those countries, he is his own worse enemy.

 

 





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Fred99
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  #1713666 1-Feb-2017 08:35
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vexxxboy:

 

sbiddle:

 

gzt:
sbiddle: The point I made is that the media are looking for answers as to why those 7 countries were selected and can only come up with the fact he has hotels and golf courses in them.

I really doubt that Trump has hotels or golf courses in any of those seven countries. The first time you said that I assumed it was an error but now with a second time it looks like you mean it.

 

Oops I didn't quite make that clear. What I meant to say was that he didn't have interests in those countries - but the media are saying other countries where people say are "terrorist" countries weren't selected because of his business interests.

 

Those countries were selected because they had already been identified. That's why no new countries were added at this time.

 

 

 

 

but it is still disingenuous to say the Obama did the same thing when he didn't , that is the biggest problem with Trump, he always twists the truth and facts with everything he does. no wonder the media brought up the fact that he has business interest in those countries, he is his own worse enemy.

 

 

Trump doesn't have the intellect - look at that godawful performance where he contacted Giuliani about the Muslim Ban, was told it wasn't legal, asked how to still do it but make it legal, Giuliani opens his mouth about this, most of the world media is calling it a "muslim ban" - and Trump now has no valid argument against that.  He's compromised himself - by that being exposed - as well as his campaigning with promises based on exactly what he's delivering - a "muslim ban".  Bannon is the chief twister of facts - much better at it than Trump.

 

The concerted attempt to argue that whatabout the fact that "Obama did the same" is propaganda - and no doubt a Bannon creation.

 

One of many potential problems I see with the media is that some are still pitching this whole thing as a "Right vs Left" - GOP vs Dems.   It shouldn't be - the election is long over - it's a war of values - moral, economic etc.

 

 


Fred99
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  #1713698 1-Feb-2017 09:16
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I shudder at the impact of Trump's conflict of interests and what will unfold when "something happens".

 

For example in just one country, Trump has a "bigly interest" in a "huge" development in Istanbul.

 

The USA world public are supposed to be satisfied that Trump's policy won't be influenced by his personal interests.

 

But we don't know the exact nature of this financial interest because he won't disclose.  It probably can't be outright ownership, because one of Trump's anti-muslim rants before he was POTUS upset Erdogan who threatened to take Trump's name off the buildings. Trump apparently apologised - something it appears he can do when realising that lack of control over his own mouth could cost him money.

 

Perhaps a building emblazoned with Trump logos would be a bit of a symbolic target to people who have been threatened by Trump that he will target to kill their families and children.

 

Turkey is a military ally to the US and Europe, with an important role as a (once?) secular but majority islamic (once?) democratic nation. They also have a complex relationship with Russia.

 

If (when?) something happens - it could be a very very messy situation.  There's no way to verify whether or not any US response would be compromised by Trump's personal interest.  He either should not be POTUS - or he should completely divest his business interests worldwide.  


Paul1977
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  #1713718 1-Feb-2017 09:44
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11 days and I am exhausted trying to keep up. Only 1450 days to go.


Sideface
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  #1713741 1-Feb-2017 10:09
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Paul1977:

 

11 days and I am exhausted trying to keep up. Only 1450 days to go.

 

 

 ... unless he becomes President for life ...

 





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