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Geektastic
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  #1717424 8-Feb-2017 22:39
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mattwnz:

 

I am wondering if this is more of a sign that the whole way of picking leaders is broken. Apparently he was voted in by less than a quarter of eligible voters. So he is only representing a small percentage of the population, so what he is doing is hardly a mandate based on those numbers. Although he did win fair and square based on the way the system works. But surely he should also be working on the fact that more actual people voted for Hillary and her ideas, so shouldn't he be basing his decisions on that as well, if he is working for all the people, not just the people who voted him in?

 

But we have the same thing happening in NZ, with mayors are getting voted in with the same types of numbers. It is all due to the low voter turnout, due to people being disenfranchised with the entire process and system. So maybe we need to look at the entire system, and whether voting should be compulsory like it is in Oz. Although they are hardly a poster child.

 

 

 

 

This happens all the time in many places. I've noticed any number of UK elections where the government of the day was selected by fewer than half the eligible voters, for example. Blair's 97 "landslide" was won by 42.3% of the votes of 71% of voters.

 

Compulsory voting looks like the obvious solution, but whilst that will increase turnout, will it result in just a pile of spoiled ballots?






mattwnz
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  #1717434 8-Feb-2017 23:24
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Not if it was done electrically, rather than on paper.

JayADee
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  #1717440 9-Feb-2017 04:44
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Rikkitic:

Currently watching the Kellyanne Conway interview on CNN. She is very good, fluent and never hesitates. She twists and turns to try to put a good spin on the ridiculous things Trump says and does, and almost makes them seem reasonable. I think she must have sold her soul to the devil to be as good as she is but if I was ever accused of a crime I would certainly want her defending me. She never misses a beat.


 



That woman has drunk the cool aid. Reminds me of the wife of an evangelical minister.

JayADee
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  #1717441 9-Feb-2017 05:18
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From News and Guts on Facebook:

Last night there was an extraordinary confrontation in the US Senate when Republican Senators voted to formally silence Elizabeth Warren as she condemned the nomination of a colleague, Senator Jeff Sessions.
The issue was a letter Warren was reading from the late Coretta Scott King. In 1986, when Sessions was up for a federal judgeship, King wrote a scathing letter that called Sessions a racist. Here is part of the letter:
“Anyone who has used the power of his office as United States Attorney to intimidate and chill the free exercise of the ballot by citizens should not be elevated to our courts...Mr. Sessions has used the awesome powers of his office in a shabby attempt to intimidate and frighten elderly black voters. For this reprehensible conduct, he should not be rewarded with a federal judgeship.”
Here's how Warren responded on Twitter:
I spoke out about @SenatorSessions – until @SenateMajLdr McConnell decided to silence me.
I will not be silent about a nominee for AG who has made derogatory & racist comments that have no place in our justice system.
I will not be silent while the Republicans rubber stamp an AG who will never stand up to the @POTUS when he breaks the law.

Sessions is a very right wing Trump supporter.

Batman
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  #1717462 9-Feb-2017 07:40
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JayADee: From News and Guts on Facebook:

Last night there was an extraordinary confrontation in the US Senate when Republican Senators voted to formally silence Elizabeth Warren as she condemned the nomination of a colleague, Senator Jeff Sessions.
The issue was a letter Warren was reading from the late Coretta Scott King. In 1986, when Sessions was up for a federal judgeship, King wrote a scathing letter that called Sessions a racist. Here is part of the letter:
“Anyone who has used the power of his office as United States Attorney to intimidate and chill the free exercise of the ballot by citizens should not be elevated to our courts...Mr. Sessions has used the awesome powers of his office in a shabby attempt to intimidate and frighten elderly black voters. For this reprehensible conduct, he should not be rewarded with a federal judgeship.”
Here's how Warren responded on Twitter:
I spoke out about @SenatorSessions – until @SenateMajLdr McConnell decided to silence me.
I will not be silent about a nominee for AG who has made derogatory & racist comments that have no place in our justice system.
I will not be silent while the Republicans rubber stamp an AG who will never stand up to the @POTUS when he breaks the law.

Sessions is a very right wing Trump supporter.

 

Don't worry, some guys in balaclavas will pay him a visit and set him right, and soon he will be either singing Trump's lies I mean praises, or be sacked.


tdgeek
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  #1717471 9-Feb-2017 07:52
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mattwnz:

 

I am wondering if this is more of a sign that the whole way of picking leaders is broken. Apparently he was voted in by less than a quarter of eligible voters. So he is only representing a small percentage of the population, so what he is doing is hardly a mandate based on those numbers. Although he did win fair and square based on the way the system works. But surely he should also be working on the fact that more actual people voted for Hillary and her ideas, so shouldn't he be basing his decisions on that as well, if he is working for all the people, not just the people who voted him in?

 

But we have the same thing happening in NZ, with mayors are getting voted in with the same types of numbers. It is all due to the low voter turnout, due to people being disenfranchised with the entire process and system. So maybe we need to look at the entire system, and whether voting should be compulsory like it is in Oz. Although they are hardly a poster child.

 

 

 

 

The same would have applied if Hillary won. 55% voted, the other 45%, well too bad, no vote so don't complain


Batman
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  #1717476 9-Feb-2017 08:03
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I'd rather people who don't want to vote don't vote, otherwise you might see the Civilian party in parliament


Sideface
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  #1717508 9-Feb-2017 09:45
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And today's word is ...

 

A.Word.A.Day


trumpery

MEANING:

1. Something showy but worthless.
2. Nonsense or rubbish.
3. Deceit; fraud; trickery.

ETYMOLOGY:

From French tromper (to deceive). Earliest documented use: 1481.



Urban Dictionary







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tdgeek
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  #1717523 9-Feb-2017 10:09
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 Another definition from Wiki, I bolded the important words

 

 

 

Trump (card games), a card of a suit which outranks all other suits in many trick-taking games


MikeB4
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  #1717525 9-Feb-2017 10:12
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the best quote to date about Donald Trump by Frankie Boyle of The Guardian .....

 

"Donald Trump: a man so obnoxious that karma may see him reincarnated as himself"

MikeAqua
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  #1717601 9-Feb-2017 12:12
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jarledb:

 

MikeAqua:

 

But what assumptions do you make about how non-voters would vote if they did vote?

 

Change the system (or just change turnout) and politicians will adapt their strategies to suit.  Someone like Trump can still get elected by using a different set of dog whistles.

 

 

Thats what Trump wants you to believe. I don't think he would have had a chance in hell if the election was based on the popular vote, no matter the strategies.

 

Mind you, with the Republicans controlling house, senate and having the President, they will have ample opportunity to keep rigging the system, so who knows how the next merry go round is going to look like...

 

 

I've believed that about electoral systems long before I'd heard of Donald Trump.

 

We've seen it in NZ.  MMP was going to end the dominance of the two major parties in NZ and usher in new era of consensus making, enlightenment and unicorns holding hooves an dancing under a rainbow.  But they (the major parties not unicorns) simply changed their strategies/policies and continue to dominate.

 

Under FPP, MMP and STV (where applicable) different people moan about different perturbations each system is vulnerable to.

 

Perturbations (and moaning) exist under all systems.  It's human nature to think that changing to different set of perturbations would favour your POV. 

 

I think it's the same part of human nature that thinks the ref is wrong and we would have won if only he'd ... at the end of the day if you lost, you lost





Mike


Dratsab
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  #1717606 9-Feb-2017 12:24
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JayADee: From News and Guts on Facebook:

Last night there was an extraordinary confrontation in the US Senate when Republican Senators voted to formally silence Elizabeth Warren as she condemned the nomination of a colleague, Senator Jeff Sessions.
The issue was a letter Warren was reading from the late Coretta Scott King. In 1986, when Sessions was up for a federal judgeship, King wrote a scathing letter that called Sessions a racist. Here is part of the letter:
“Anyone who has used the power of his office as United States Attorney to intimidate and chill the free exercise of the ballot by citizens should not be elevated to our courts...Mr. Sessions has used the awesome powers of his office in a shabby attempt to intimidate and frighten elderly black voters. For this reprehensible conduct, he should not be rewarded with a federal judgeship.”
Here's how Warren responded on Twitter:
I spoke out about @SenatorSessions – until @SenateMajLdr McConnell decided to silence me.
I will not be silent about a nominee for AG who has made derogatory & racist comments that have no place in our justice system.
I will not be silent while the Republicans rubber stamp an AG who will never stand up to the @POTUS when he breaks the law.

Sessions is a very right wing Trump supporter.

 

This sort of thing is why I think anyone that believes Trump will be impeached at some stage is dreaming.


Rikkitic
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  #1717607 9-Feb-2017 12:24
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MMP was a silly system pushed by the political parties, who didn't want to lose their power. STV would be a much fairer system, expect most people don't understand it.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


Batman
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  #1717610 9-Feb-2017 12:33
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MikeAqua:

 

jarledb:

 

MikeAqua:

 

But what assumptions do you make about how non-voters would vote if they did vote?

 

Change the system (or just change turnout) and politicians will adapt their strategies to suit.  Someone like Trump can still get elected by using a different set of dog whistles.

 

 

Thats what Trump wants you to believe. I don't think he would have had a chance in hell if the election was based on the popular vote, no matter the strategies.

 

Mind you, with the Republicans controlling house, senate and having the President, they will have ample opportunity to keep rigging the system, so who knows how the next merry go round is going to look like...

 

 

I've believed that about electoral systems long before I'd heard of Donald Trump.

 

We've seen it in NZ.  MMP was going to end the dominance of the two major parties in NZ and usher in new era of consensus making, enlightenment and unicorns holding hooves an dancing under a rainbow.  But they (the major parties not unicorns) simply changed their strategies/policies and continue to dominate.

 

Under FPP, MMP and STV (where applicable) different people moan about different perturbations each system is vulnerable to.

 

Perturbations (and moaning) exist under all systems.  It's human nature to think that changing to different set of perturbations would favour your POV. 

 

I think it's the same part of human nature that thinks the ref is wrong and we would have won if only he'd ... at the end of the day if you lost, you lost

 

 

re jarledb: you don't know America. the non well-to-dos voted for trump. anyone who is not doing well will have voted for him. popular vote he also has a chance - if his campaign strategy was right. very good chance. why? they hate Hillary.


Sideface
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  #1717618 9-Feb-2017 12:45
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MikeB4:

 

the best quote to date about Donald Trump by Frankie Boyle of The Guardian .....

 

"Donald Trump: a man so obnoxious that karma may see him reincarnated as himself"

 

 

There are some who believe that this has already happened ...   undecided

 





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