Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Pumpedd

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#1743730 19-Mar-2017 10:29

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Germany at least is spending large on refugees. Whilst absorbing so many into Germany isnt a oewrfect answer for the problem, at least they have shown some degree of responsibility. IMO it is America who was the major contributor to the European refugee crisis by sitting back and watching Asad destroy the country and allow terrorism to enter. America got rid of tyrants in other countries but left Syria to stew and then didnt help squat with the refugees. By doing nothing it allowed Russia and others to enter to make matters a whole lot worse.

frankv

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#1743741 19-Mar-2017 11:16

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freitasm:

QFT. I will repeat here: Trump's campaign was of hate and lies. He never had a plan to finish ISIS, never had a plan for an alternative healthcare. What he did was to appeal to racist, misogynist, bigotted, stupid people who hated the black President and hated the idea of a woman in power.

He lied to them and when in power he did not "drain the swamp". He's placing his friends - bankers, industry barons - in power.

Bunch of winkers.

To be fair, he also appealed to a whole lot of middle class Americans who weren't racist, misogynist, or bigotted. Probably not even stupid. They realised they were getting shafted, and wanted change. The System delivered them up a choice of Hillary (no real change) or Trump. The power elite would have preferred Clinton, and wrongly believed that not enough people would be stupid/angry/disenfranchised/whatever to actually elect Trump. Turns out that every change Trump makes is for the worse for the middle class, but better for the power elite! Who would have thought?

The rest I agree with.

Paul1977

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#1743753 19-Mar-2017 11:32

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joker97:

To be clear, most Trump voters voted him because they didn't want Clinton. Hence an anti-Clinton vote.

That just reiterates the "two terrible candidates" argument. You've got Trump getting votes from those who hate Clinton, and Clinton getting votes from those who hate Trump.

But I still believe that Trump got more pro-Trump votes than Clinton got pro-Clinton votes. I have no evidence to support this, it's just what I think.

Fred99

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#1743943 19-Mar-2017 17:35

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Geektastic: He's not entirely wrong about Germany. NATO via the US And BAOR has provided the bulk of Germany's defences since WW2 and saved them a fortune which helped greatly with their economic success.

Yes - he is entirely wrong about Germany.

Germany has kept military spending low for the past 60 years - "never again" was pretty good logic IMO.

They do contribute to NATO, the debate has been had already - about increasing expenditure to 2% of GDP by 2024, which Germany is doing.

They're also spending something like US$50 billion a year on the refugee crisis. Something that is an eventual result of the US illegal invasion of Iraq, and for which the UK and USA now both seem to be happy to wash their hands of responsibility for their own actions, and let hundreds of thousands of innocent people be slaughtered lest some "bad guys" get in with the masses.

Germany also does not owe the USA - NATO does not "belong to" the USA, they don't hold the purse strings.

Meh - I'm more convinced as the days go on, that Trump is merely Bannon's puppet, and that Trump's being played and coaxed into abject dumb "diplomacy" for the sole purpose of destabilising Europe by repeated insults and threats.

Geektastic

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#1743955 19-Mar-2017 17:55

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Pumpedd:

Germany at least is spending large on refugees. Whilst absorbing so many into Germany isnt a oewrfect answer for the problem, at least they have shown some degree of responsibility. IMO it is America who was the major contributor to the European refugee crisis by sitting back and watching Asad destroy the country and allow terrorism to enter. America got rid of tyrants in other countries but left Syria to stew and then didnt help squat with the refugees. By doing nothing it allowed Russia and others to enter to make matters a whole lot worse.

"At least"? Rest assured, I have yet to meet a single European who is thanking them for that. Remember that the refugees, once in the EU and in possession of documents, are free to move to whatever EU country they like...!

MikeB4

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#1743958 19-Mar-2017 18:01

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I wasn't going to reenter this quagmire but military expenditure is of interest to me. Germany spends circa $40 Billion per annum and rank 9th. With the other issues they have that is more than enough, they should tel the USA to go take a jump.

ajobbins

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#1743995 19-Mar-2017 18:42

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Geektastic:

Pumpedd:

Germany at least is spending large on refugees. Whilst absorbing so many into Germany isnt a oewrfect answer for the problem, at least they have shown some degree of responsibility. IMO it is America who was the major contributor to the European refugee crisis by sitting back and watching Asad destroy the country and allow terrorism to enter. America got rid of tyrants in other countries but left Syria to stew and then didnt help squat with the refugees. By doing nothing it allowed Russia and others to enter to make matters a whole lot worse.

"At least"? Rest assured, I have yet to meet a single European who is thanking them for that. Remember that the refugees, once in the EU and in possession of documents, are free to move to whatever EU country they like...!

I know literally dozens of EU citizens that are either relatives, work colleagues, friends or associates who support taking refugees as Germany has. And of course many that don't, but to assert that no one supports this suggests to me you live in a 'bubble' of only like-minded people that is not representative of Europeans generally.

Twitter: ajobbins

Pumpedd

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#1744037 19-Mar-2017 20:21

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MikeB4:

I wasn't going to reenter this quagmire but military expenditure is of interest to me. Germany spends circa $40 Billion per annum and rank 9th. With the other issues they have that is more than enough, they should tel the USA to go take a jump.

I agree

I really hope the world can forge a decent trade block without America....that administration deserves some steep lessons in being a good global citizen etc.

Fred99

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#1744143 19-Mar-2017 22:35

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MikeB4:

I wasn't going to reenter this quagmire but military expenditure is of interest to me. Germany spends circa $40 Billion per annum and rank 9th. With the other issues they have that is more than enough, they should tel the USA to go take a jump.

Perhaps that's exactly the point - under domestic political pressure, Germany will tell the USA to go take a jump.

Meanwhile at a G20 meeting in Germany, the US has effectively shifted dialogue away from commitment against trade protectionism, and also against commitment to the Paris accord, this won't please German industrialists, nor the strong green movement.

Germany is in a difficult position, as they presently have a considerable trade imbalance with the USA, exports to the US are about double imports and the USA is Germany's single largest export market.

I have no doubt Trump wants to destroy European unity for his own reasons - it's easier to bully individual small nations than a large bloc. One of those reasons is anti-liberalism, which is against his authoritarian agenda. It will also greatly please Russia.

Fred99

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#1744147 19-Mar-2017 22:42

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frankv:

To be fair, he also appealed to a whole lot of middle class Americans who weren't racist, misogynist, or bigotted. Probably not even stupid. They realised they were getting shafted, and wanted change.

How were they "getting shafted"?
(or who was "shafting" them - the cronies now firmly entrenched in positions of power in Trump's administration, or "liberals" trying to reduce cost of healthcare, protect against fraud by financial institutions, and to shift the burden of taxation back to corporations and individuals who've been gaming the system for the past 1/2 century?)

frankv

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#1744189 20-Mar-2017 07:22

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Fred99:

frankv:

To be fair, he also appealed to a whole lot of middle class Americans who weren't racist, misogynist, or bigotted. Probably not even stupid. They realised they were getting shafted, and wanted change.

How were they "getting shafted"?
(or who was "shafting" them - the cronies now firmly entrenched in positions of power in Trump's administration, or "liberals" trying to reduce cost of healthcare, protect against fraud by financial institutions, and to shift the burden of taxation back to corporations and individuals who've been gaming the system for the past 1/2 century?)

Oh, I agree totally. The super-wealthy and corporates paying no/little tax, not paying for their environmental damage, defrauding investors, etc have shifted the burden on the middle class. And Trump is perhaps the worst of that lot, so perhaps it *was* stupid to elect him President. But a quasi-"liberal" like Clinton wouldn't have improved things.

The choice all the way from the Primaries to the Presidential election was between someone who thought this situation was OK and someone who at least *said* he would solve it, albeit in ways that were ridiculous. Regretfully, the voters decided that Saunders was too ridiculous, and Trump wasn't.

Batman

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#1744190 20-Mar-2017 07:23

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on the news the other day, Apple's NZ tax payment for 2016 was $0.00000

sir1963

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#1744194 20-Mar-2017 07:28

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Pumpedd:

MikeB4:

I wasn't going to reenter this quagmire but military expenditure is of interest to me. Germany spends circa $40 Billion per annum and rank 9th. With the other issues they have that is more than enough, they should tel the USA to go take a jump.

I agree

I really hope the world can forge a decent trade block without America....that administration deserves some steep lessons in being a good global citizen etc.

The USA needs to learn that 96% of the worlds population are NOT US citizens .

In the 1960s the USA made up about 60% of the worlds GDP, today it makes up about 20% and falling. Loosing trade access to the USA will hurt, for a while, but the world WILL recover, the USA will not.

The USA was NEVER "great", their "peak USA" was the 1950-1970 and that was ONLY because of WWII, they were the only large, populated, industrialised country with large natural resources who did not need to rebuild after WWII. Instead they sold goods to the rest of the world and made a LOT of money from it.

Europe and Asia have rebuilt and modernised, they are no longer dependant on the USA for rebuilding schools, roads, bridges, power generation, water, hospitals, etc etc etc etc etc.

Trade agreements with the USA are no longer "do as you are told", they are loosing many battles in the WTO (which was set up by the US for the benefits of the US), the US is loosing authority all around the world and they don't like it. The result is the US meddling in other countries affairs, starting wars, projecting their power to weaken those who would say "no".

sir1963

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#1744198 20-Mar-2017 07:32

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joker97:

on the news the other day, Apple's NZ tax payment for 2016 was $0.00000

Simple law change "licensing" can be not more than 10% of total business costs otherwise the business is deemed non viable

Licensing costs can ONLY be paid to the country of origin as deemed by the IRD (e.g. USA for Apple et al).

Tax evasion fines will be based on the companies world wide turnover as assessed by the IRD

tdgeek

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#1744200 20-Mar-2017 07:38

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sir1963:

Pumpedd:

MikeB4:

I wasn't going to reenter this quagmire but military expenditure is of interest to me. Germany spends circa $40 Billion per annum and rank 9th. With the other issues they have that is more than enough, they should tel the USA to go take a jump.

I agree

I really hope the world can forge a decent trade block without America....that administration deserves some steep lessons in being a good global citizen etc.

The USA needs to learn that 96% of the worlds population are NOT US citizens .

In the 1960s the USA made up about 60% of the worlds GDP, today it makes up about 20% and falling. Loosing trade access to the USA will hurt, for a while, but the world WILL recover, the USA will not.

The USA was NEVER "great", their "peak USA" was the 1950-1970 and that was ONLY because of WWII, they were the only large, populated, industrialised country with large natural resources who did not need to rebuild after WWII. Instead they sold goods to the rest of the world and made a LOT of money from it.

Europe and Asia have rebuilt and modernised, they are no longer dependant on the USA for rebuilding schools, roads, bridges, power generation, water, hospitals, etc etc etc etc etc.

Trade agreements with the USA are no longer "do as you are told", they are loosing many battles in the WTO (which was set up by the US for the benefits of the US), the US is loosing authority all around the world and they don't like it. The result is the US meddling in other countries affairs, starting wars, projecting their power to weaken those who would say "no".

100%

China is a big power, Japan, S Korea, Europe, UK. The USA is "a" power now, amongst many. They should cooperate rather than assume we are No. 1 we are everything

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