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Batman
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  #1759439 8-Apr-2017 12:14
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maybe Trump found out the expiry date of the Tomahawks. "how many are expiring?" "59, mr Prez" "fire 59" "yes sir"


TheLastTherapist
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  #1759518 8-Apr-2017 16:18
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Fred99:

 

The pain experienced by the US "working class" was an inevitable consequence of the GFC.   

 

...It freaking well worked - you'll find the strongest nationalist support amongst the "working class".  They're the Fox News audience - unfortunately it's the only voice they think they've got. 

 

 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

 

I think you're dead right that they backed candidates that gave them a voice - Sanders got so much traction (despite less money) the only way to bench him was for superdelegates to break from their rank and file (Sanders had clear majority support from women under 30).

Republicans hated Trump too and again on a much less funded campaign he stomped their establishment candidates.

 

And yet post-election there's no acknowledgement from either party they were out of touch.

 

You'd think at the very least they'd say it was racism, sexism and being systematically impoverished for forty years.


tdgeek
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  #1759530 8-Apr-2017 16:44
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TheLastTherapist:

Fred99:


The pain experienced by the US "working class" was an inevitable consequence of the GFC.   


...It freaking well worked - you'll find the strongest nationalist support amongst the "working class".  They're the Fox News audience - unfortunately it's the only voice they think they've got. 



US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.


I think you're dead right that they backed candidates that gave them a voice - Sanders got so much traction (despite less money) the only way to bench him was for superdelegates to break from their rank and file (Sanders had clear majority support from women under 30).

Republicans hated Trump too and again on a much less funded campaign he stomped their establishment candidates.


And yet post-election there's no acknowledgement from either party they were out of touch.


You'd think at the very least they'd say it was racism, sexism and being systematically impoverished for forty years.



I feel that the bottom line was that the working class wanted a change. Any change. Trump was a change and not a politician but a businessman. He gave them a change and a non political I'll fix it. They lapped it up. If it was a warren buffet or bill gates the same. Not a career politician or a need for money so it makes a lot of sense now.

Unfortunately it was Trump but he is neutered thank god. He may well spawn other rich do gooders that actually have brains and want to do good. But between now and then the ginger man is unlikely to do much harm and it will be short lived

sir1963
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  #1759548 8-Apr-2017 17:38
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TheLastTherapist:

 

Fred99:

 

The pain experienced by the US "working class" was an inevitable consequence of the GFC.   

 

...It freaking well worked - you'll find the strongest nationalist support amongst the "working class".  They're the Fox News audience - unfortunately it's the only voice they think they've got. 

 

 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

 

I think you're dead right that they backed candidates that gave them a voice - Sanders got so much traction (despite less money) the only way to bench him was for superdelegates to break from their rank and file (Sanders had clear majority support from women under 30).

Republicans hated Trump too and again on a much less funded campaign he stomped their establishment candidates.

 

And yet post-election there's no acknowledgement from either party they were out of touch.

 

You'd think at the very least they'd say it was racism, sexism and being systematically impoverished for forty years.

 

 

Problem with Americans is that they have failed to figure out WHY they did so well in the 50s-70s. Its not as though they were great or any such bullsh!t.

 

Its because they were the only large, highly populated, well resourced (financially and natural resources) first world country who did not have the rebuild their entire country after WWII.

 

Instead they got to build and sell the stuff to everyone else so they could rebuild. They got to invest in R&D, more infrastructure, more manufacturing.

 

Come the 1970s and the worlds reliance on the US started falling. They could manufacture at home , they had schools and hospitals, they had electricity, water, food, etc etc etc etc , They had the children of WWII being productive in the workforce, no longer orphans. Technology had reduced the costs for manufacturing and shipping. The Container ship has probably been one of the biggest factors.

 

Today its even more true, you can ship a container into the forrest and have a telephone exchange up and running for hundreds of people within a day or so.

 

Look at the Microwave oven, my first cost NZ$1200, they can now be found for less than $100.

 

In the 1960s the USA accounted for 60% of the worlds GDP, today its less than 20%.

 

The world no longer NEEDs the USA the same as it did in the 50's onwards. The USA was rolling in money selling stuff to the world, now the world makes its own stuff. Its not that manufacturing left the USA, its the customers, the 96% of people who are not US citizens no longer need to buy from the USA. And THAT is not going to change.

 

 

 

What has happened to the USA was destined to happen. Its like the kids leaving home. The USA just believes it is entitled to be the way it was.


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  #1759549 8-Apr-2017 17:44
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Don't worry after WW3 they will be on exactly the opposite situation


Fred99
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  #1759551 8-Apr-2017 17:49
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TheLastTherapist:

 

 

 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

 

 

 

 

That's an "impression" and common fallacy, not fact:

 

 

Of course the disproportionately higher increase at the top is visible, helped (IMO) by a somewhat greater social tolerance / expectation to display wealth if you've got it.

 

But it's not really true that the wages of the middle class have been stagnant. Coinciding with the increase in earnings has been a fall in some costs - manufactured goods, food - and an increase in other costs - healthcare and housing, education.

 

Edit to say that over that period ('79-'13) real GDP per capita increased by about 70%, so it's certainly true that the top quintile got more than their "fair share" of gain, the middle classes less.


tdgeek
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  #1759552 8-Apr-2017 17:50
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sir1963:

 

TheLastTherapist:

 

Fred99:

 

The pain experienced by the US "working class" was an inevitable consequence of the GFC.   

 

...It freaking well worked - you'll find the strongest nationalist support amongst the "working class".  They're the Fox News audience - unfortunately it's the only voice they think they've got. 

 

 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

 

I think you're dead right that they backed candidates that gave them a voice - Sanders got so much traction (despite less money) the only way to bench him was for superdelegates to break from their rank and file (Sanders had clear majority support from women under 30).

Republicans hated Trump too and again on a much less funded campaign he stomped their establishment candidates.

 

And yet post-election there's no acknowledgement from either party they were out of touch.

 

You'd think at the very least they'd say it was racism, sexism and being systematically impoverished for forty years.

 

 

Problem with Americans is that they have failed to figure out WHY they did so well in the 50s-70s. Its not as though they were great or any such bullsh!t.

 

Its because they were the only large, highly populated, well resourced (financially and natural resources) first world country who did not have the rebuild their entire country after WWII.

 

Instead they got to build and sell the stuff to everyone else so they could rebuild. They got to invest in R&D, more infrastructure, more manufacturing.

 

Come the 1970s and the worlds reliance on the US started falling. They could manufacture at home , they had schools and hospitals, they had electricity, water, food, etc etc etc etc , They had the children of WWII being productive in the workforce, no longer orphans. Technology had reduced the costs for manufacturing and shipping. The Container ship has probably been one of the biggest factors.

 

Today its even more true, you can ship a container into the forrest and have a telephone exchange up and running for hundreds of people within a day or so.

 

Look at the Microwave oven, my first cost NZ$1200, they can now be found for less than $100.

 

In the 1960s the USA accounted for 60% of the worlds GDP, today its less than 20%.

 

The world no longer NEEDs the USA the same as it did in the 50's onwards. The USA was rolling in money selling stuff to the world, now the world makes its own stuff. Its not that manufacturing left the USA, its the customers, the 96% of people who are not US citizens no longer need to buy from the USA. And THAT is not going to change.

 

 

 

What has happened to the USA was destined to happen. Its like the kids leaving home. The USA just believes it is entitled to be the way it was.

 

 

Could not agree more. 

 

Its the No.1 superpower, economically and militarily. It still is, just. Well, just economically. its now a big power amongst many other big powers. China, and Europe. India will go through a mini China development. 

 

IMHO having spent a lot of time there, it is like a grand house. Now, it hasn't been looked after, the infrastructure is poor and old. Water supply is a real issue. Making America great is a great idea. Sorting trade deficits os a great idea. Problem is they cannot do that. Its cheaper to import. They cannot revisit the 50's, they need to embrace the real world today and focus on what they can do better, and thats not manufacturing. Thats why Bunnings, and Walmart and The Warehouse is heavily imported stock. 

 

The USA needs to revisit its capabilities. And that is part of the world, not THE world.


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  #1759553 8-Apr-2017 17:59
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Obama had a policy that chemical warfare was the red line. He never acted, and thus was termed feckless. The Syria issue  now, since the attacks by the US on Assad is big news. If this was Obama (and chemical attacks are not new for Assad), it would be news, but not big news, just more of the horror in Syria.

 

Unsure how it will pan out from here, its a bit like the Korean conflict, it cannot be won, and much more so as its not a two side war. Like most Middle East issues it cannot be won, whether that be on the front line of war or in the diplomacy. 

 

 


gzt

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  #1759571 8-Apr-2017 18:53
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tdgeek:

Obama had a policy that chemical warfare was the red line. He never acted, and thus was termed feckless.


Kerry made an offer and Syria accepted that offer. A significant number of stockpiled chemical weapons and precursors 1300 tons were destroyed by America under that agreement. That was a good thing and made it more difficult for non-state actors to acquire them during the conflict.

The regime has used chlorine a number of times which is somewhat easy to manufacture. Weaponised chlorine is evil, but not a proliferation risk.

After the use of sarin, it is very likely that Trump executed a contingency plan developed under the Obama administration to respond to this situation.


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  #1759687 9-Apr-2017 09:25
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Ge0rge:
Geektastic:

 

Surprised that they did not also strike the runway surface to deny it's use.

 



Tomahawks aren't really the ideal weapon to do long term damage to a runway surface.

 

Sure. So use a different one. It's not like they couldn't rustle up half a dozen Paveways or something!






Geektastic
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  #1759689 9-Apr-2017 09:28
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sir1963:

 

TheLastTherapist:

 

Fred99:

 

The pain experienced by the US "working class" was an inevitable consequence of the GFC.   

 

...It freaking well worked - you'll find the strongest nationalist support amongst the "working class".  They're the Fox News audience - unfortunately it's the only voice they think they've got. 

 

 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

 

I think you're dead right that they backed candidates that gave them a voice - Sanders got so much traction (despite less money) the only way to bench him was for superdelegates to break from their rank and file (Sanders had clear majority support from women under 30).

Republicans hated Trump too and again on a much less funded campaign he stomped their establishment candidates.

 

And yet post-election there's no acknowledgement from either party they were out of touch.

 

You'd think at the very least they'd say it was racism, sexism and being systematically impoverished for forty years.

 

 

Problem with Americans is that they have failed to figure out WHY they did so well in the 50s-70s. Its not as though they were great or any such bullsh!t.

 

Its because they were the only large, highly populated, well resourced (financially and natural resources) first world country who did not have the rebuild their entire country after WWII.

 

Instead they got to build and sell the stuff to everyone else so they could rebuild. They got to invest in R&D, more infrastructure, more manufacturing.

 

Come the 1970s and the worlds reliance on the US started falling. They could manufacture at home , they had schools and hospitals, they had electricity, water, food, etc etc etc etc , They had the children of WWII being productive in the workforce, no longer orphans. Technology had reduced the costs for manufacturing and shipping. The Container ship has probably been one of the biggest factors.

 

Today its even more true, you can ship a container into the forrest and have a telephone exchange up and running for hundreds of people within a day or so.

 

Look at the Microwave oven, my first cost NZ$1200, they can now be found for less than $100.

 

In the 1960s the USA accounted for 60% of the worlds GDP, today its less than 20%.

 

The world no longer NEEDs the USA the same as it did in the 50's onwards. The USA was rolling in money selling stuff to the world, now the world makes its own stuff. Its not that manufacturing left the USA, its the customers, the 96% of people who are not US citizens no longer need to buy from the USA. And THAT is not going to change.

 

 

 

What has happened to the USA was destined to happen. Its like the kids leaving home. The USA just believes it is entitled to be the way it was.

 

 

 

 

This is very true - although, technically, the"children of WWII" were still orphans, productive in the workforce or not..!

 

It also partly explains Germany's industrial success, as NATO and BAOR supplied the majority of their defence needs post war, saving them from much of the expense necessary to do it themselves.

 

 






Rikkitic
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  #1759692 9-Apr-2017 09:34
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Good perspective piece on the missile strike.

 

@freitasm: Not sure if this long link will stuff up the layout.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


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  #1759697 9-Apr-2017 09:48
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Geektastic:

Ge0rge:
Geektastic:


Surprised that they did not also strike the runway surface to deny it's use.




Tomahawks aren't really the ideal weapon to do long term damage to a runway surface.


Sure. So use a different one. It's not like they couldn't rustle up half a dozen Paveways or something!



Most munitions that would do a really effective job of damaging a runway beyond quick repair are dropped from aircraft as opposed to being able to be launched from a stand-off position. The last thing that the US wants is to find out that actually, the Russian sponsored S-300 or S-400 anti-aircraft systems are fully functional and able to knock US planes down, or that actually the "stealth" bomber isn't so stealthy any more...

As it is there are claims that over half of the Tomahawks launched didn't make their designated targets,be it through missile failure or being shot down.

Don't take this the wrong way - I completely agree with you in that the strike was rather impotent. Hell, they used to have nuclear capable Tomahawks, now that would have taken care of business rather nicely...

gzt

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  #1759698 9-Apr-2017 09:48
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Rikkitic:

 

Good perspective piece on the missile strike.

 

@freitasm: Not sure if this long link will stuff up the layout. 

 


That one will be ok. Has - dash separators. Browsers will line break those.

The problem only occurs when the browser does not line break something it sees as a long word.

Even so it's better to inline link with the rich ui or use BBcode for the same.





Signature goes here.

freitasm
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  #1759732 9-Apr-2017 12:14
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Thanks @gzt. Correct. It's always better to use the rich editor to select the words, click the link button and paste the link there.

 

Obviously if someone is on mobile then there's BBCode

 

For those using adblockers, there's no rich editor because the people maintaining the adblock list (a New Zealander no less) decided that Geekzone should have ALL scripts blocked, regardless if it's advertising or not. 





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