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Batman
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  #1820062 12-Jul-2017 09:40
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freitasm:

 

frankv:

 

It seems (based on what has come to light so far) that Trump Jr found that what was offered wasn't helpful and it wasn't used. So, he didn't actually break the law against foreign collusion in elections. But it is also clear that he was willing to do so. And it's also undeniable that Russia *was* trying to influence the election. So, whilst this particular incident may not be significant in itself, it does underline the need for the Comey/Mueller FBI investigation, and the wrongness of Comey's sacking. 

 

 

But unless there's evidence that Trump remove Comey because of where the investigations were going there's no way to prove obstruction of justice...

 

 

And if they found his "tapes" ... that would be 100% fake news, blame Obama, sack someone else, drop another bomb somewhere to distract everyone, and everything will be OK.


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  #1821246 12-Jul-2017 13:16
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freitasm:

 

frankv:

 

It seems (based on what has come to light so far) that Trump Jr found that what was offered wasn't helpful and it wasn't used. So, he didn't actually break the law against foreign collusion in elections. But it is also clear that he was willing to do so. And it's also undeniable that Russia *was* trying to influence the election. So, whilst this particular incident may not be significant in itself, it does underline the need for the Comey/Mueller FBI investigation, and the wrongness of Comey's sacking. 

 

 

But unless there's evidence that Trump remove Comey because of where the investigations were going there's no way to prove obstruction of justice...

 

 

Yeah. But this at least proves smoke, if not fire. There's no way he can fire Mueller now. e.g. http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/index.html

 

 

 

 


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  #1821261 12-Jul-2017 13:51
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frankv:

 

Yeah. But this at least proves smoke, if not fire. There's no way he can fire Mueller now. e.g. http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/index.html

 

 

Interesting read, sounds fishy to me. But to account for 80% of the lookups, the Russian server either did a crazy large amount of lookups, or the total number of lookups was in fact quite small (which would mean the 80% would not necessarily be an enormous amount).

 

Possibly an email server for a little used Trump owned domain name, perhaps only used for stuff they don't want going through their main email system. A little bit sloppy of them if that's the case.

 

They'll never get any definitive proof of anything if all they have are DNS lookups, so it's all speculation. However, I'd be interested to know what domain names had MX records pointing to that server during the time frame in question.


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  #1821273 12-Jul-2017 14:07
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And I repeat again: the main reason Trump was elected is because bigoted, racist, dumb Americans couldn't accept the idea of the first woman president, even more so after the first black president.





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  #1821280 12-Jul-2017 14:24
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freitasm:

 

And I repeat again: the main reason Trump was elected is because bigoted, racist, dumb Americans couldn't accept the idea of the first woman president, even more so after the first black president.

 

 

 

 

Well, it didn't help that she wasn't a particularly amazing candidate in her own right. She is a war hawk, a liar, and happy to play fast and loose with the law in ways that would certainly have gotten a mere peon fired (whether or not any harm was done, using a private email server for government business was not allowed). It isn't necessary to assume sexism as the main reason she lost the election. I wouldn't have voted for her either, but not because she is a woman. Bernie for 2020!





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  #1821284 12-Jul-2017 14:30
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SaltyNZ:

 

freitasm:

 

And I repeat again: the main reason Trump was elected is because bigoted, racist, dumb Americans couldn't accept the idea of the first woman president, even more so after the first black president.

 

 

Well, it didn't help that she wasn't a particularly amazing candidate in her own right. She is a war hawk, a liar, and happy to play fast and loose with the law in ways that would certainly have gotten a mere peon fired (whether or not any harm was done, using a private email server for government business was not allowed). It isn't necessary to assume sexism as the main reason she lost the election. I wouldn't have voted for her either, but not because she is a woman. Bernie for 2020!

 

 

The problem is I think the average Trump voter didn't even understand HRC one way or another. They only had to hear "Woman!", "Emails!" and "Coming for your guns!" to vote for him.





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  #1821286 12-Jul-2017 14:35
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Trump did an effective job of painting Clinton as corrupt and that had a lot to do with it. Anyone in American politics that long will have a lot of baggage and Americans are widely aware of all the lobbying and so on in Washington. Clinton really failed to address that head on.

I also think her free uni tuition policy was virtually meaningless to many Americans with more basic concerns.

Clinton failed.

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  #1821288 12-Jul-2017 14:40
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SaltyNZ:

freitasm:


And I repeat again: the main reason Trump was elected is because bigoted, racist, dumb Americans couldn't accept the idea of the first woman president, even more so after the first black president.



 


Well, it didn't help that she wasn't a particularly amazing candidate in her own right. She is a war hawk, a liar, and happy to play fast and loose with the law in ways that would certainly have gotten a mere peon fired (whether or not any harm was done, using a private email server for government business was not allowed). It isn't necessary to assume sexism as the main reason she lost the election. I wouldn't have voted for her either, but not because she is a woman. Bernie for 2020!



That's completely true.

But, as it turns out, the margin to Trump was pretty small, and I cannot say that were there no fake internet news on Clinton committing atrocities, FBI announcement of a false alarm, etc, that Trump would have still won.

Nevermind the Russians, that is.

But you'd think a stronger candidate would have managed to weather those storms in a teacup.

Well, call it a rugby match then. Plenty of controversy about fairplay, but in the end the winner's crowned and that's who America voted- their Potus.

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  #1821289 12-Jul-2017 14:42
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gzt: Trump did an effective job of painting Clinton as corrupt and that had a lot to do with it. Anyone in American politics that long will have a lot of baggage and Americans are widely aware of all the lobbying and so on in Washington. Clinton really failed to address that head on.

I also think her free uni tuition policy was virtually meaningless to many Americans with more basic concerns.

Clinton failed.


Yes. It's like Survivor. Tribe has spoken.

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  #1821290 12-Jul-2017 14:42
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gzt: Trump did an effective job of painting Clinton as corrupt and that had a lot to do with it. Anyone in American politics that long will have a lot of baggage and Americans are widely aware of all the lobbying and so on in Washington. Clinton really failed to address that head on.

I also think her free uni tuition policy was virtually meaningless to many Americans with more basic concerns.

Clinton failed.

 

 

 

Trump had a Boeing 757 full of gold plated baggage - but still won the electoral college.

 

Many republicans are blatant hypocrites - that was a main issue - and it still is.


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  #1821298 12-Jul-2017 15:01
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Fred99:

gzt: Trump did an effective job of painting Clinton as corrupt and that had a lot to do with it. Anyone in American politics that long will have a lot of baggage and Americans are widely aware of all the lobbying and so on in Washington. Clinton really failed to address that head on.

I also think her free uni tuition policy was virtually meaningless to many Americans with more basic concerns.

Clinton failed.


 


Trump had a Boeing 757 full of gold plated baggage -


Yes that's obvious and Clinton completely failed to address it.

but still won the electoral college.


Many republicans are blatant hypocrites - that was a main issue - and it still is.


Same can be said from the other side. It's a simple cancel on that one.

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  #1821338 12-Jul-2017 15:29
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freitasm:

 

And I repeat again: the main reason Trump was elected is because bigoted, racist, dumb Americans couldn't accept the idea of the first woman president, even more so after the first black president.

 

 

It may have contributed, but I don't think is was the main reason. She may be an accomplished politician, but she was a terrible candidate/campaigner.


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  #1821365 12-Jul-2017 16:37
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gzt:
Fred99:

 

gzt: Trump did an effective job of painting Clinton as corrupt and that had a lot to do with it. Anyone in American politics that long will have a lot of baggage and Americans are widely aware of all the lobbying and so on in Washington. Clinton really failed to address that head on.

I also think her free uni tuition policy was virtually meaningless to many Americans with more basic concerns.

Clinton failed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trump had a Boeing 757 full of gold plated baggage -


Yes that's obvious and Clinton completely failed to address it.

but still won the electoral college.

 

Many republicans are blatant hypocrites - that was a main issue - and it still is.

 


Same can be said from the other side. It's a simple cancel on that one.

 

Sorry - but that's wildly incorrect.  Trump lies are absolutely unprecedented, the attacks on Obama during his presidency - based on absolute outright dirty lies (birtherism etc), the Trump administration's ongoing attack on the free press, the hypocrisy of "pro-life" agenda balanced against the probable deaths of millions as an inevitable direct result of proposed republican healthcare reforms, the appeal to christians when Trump has less Jesus in him than a lump of coal.

 

Hillary certainly failed - IMO two huge errors of judgement:

 

Overestimating Republicans.  The Fox News viewing, Trump loving, conspiracy theory believing, anti-intellectual, anti-liberal, despicable scumbags weren't an anomaly like Palin's tea-party supporters.  They are now the core of the Republican party.  For more proof of that, look at how McCain has been marginalised.  Calling the deplorables deplorable had the same effect as calling a baby ugly at a plunket party.  Everybody (except the mother) might have quietly thought the baby was butt ugly before you said it, after you said it they'd all want to scratch your eyes out.

 

The "when they go low - we go high" idea was seriously wrong.  Fight fire with fire.  The MSM failed to call out Trump as a liar until after he was sworn in. Stupid - as he is a blatant liar, a dirty liar, an obvious liar - and he has no defense against that truth.


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  #1821380 12-Jul-2017 17:01
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The GOP didn't win the election, the Dems lost it.

 

Simply put, Hillary just wasn't a suitable candidate.

 

Bernie was a far better bet, but the Dems chose to back Hillary.

 

So, you could easily lay the blame for the current ballsup on the Dems.

 

Kind a makes one wonder: Is it that big a deal, becoming POTUS?

 

IMHO, Chump is the first candidate that apparently makes big bucks who can be bothered to run for POTUS.

 

The guys who really make the money in the US and globally, don't care who dons the grubby POTUS mantle, as long as their financial interests are secured and fruitful.

 

 

 

 





'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.' Voltaire

 

'If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer.' Stevie Wonder - 'Superstition'

 

 


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  #1821428 12-Jul-2017 17:44
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Americans used to boast that anyone could grow up to be president. I guess they really can.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


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