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  #2019876 21-May-2018 15:18
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Saying that a Muslim ban isn't racist because it's a religion and not a race is just semantics. It is still stereotyping and vilifying an entire group of people based on one characteristic.

 

Trump himself might not necessarily be racist - I don't know that he holds any true beliefs other than he is the centre of the universe. However his policies and rhetoric are purposefully designed to appeal the to the racist nature of his supporters (either latent or explicit).

 

There is no greater unifier than a common enemy. Trump has painted the picture of outsiders as the enemy, and solidifies his support with oversimplified plans of giant walls to protect America from the evil outsiders.

 

Border security is necessary and important, but that is not what Trump's wall is about.

 

 


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  #2019893 21-May-2018 15:30
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The UN definition of racism...

 

"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life".





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


 
 
 
 


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  #2019896 21-May-2018 15:31
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Netflix gave me a chuckle last night.

 


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  #2019899 21-May-2018 15:33
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Paul1977:

 

Netflix gave me a chuckle last night.

 

 

 

That is quite possibly scarily  prophetic.  





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2019928 21-May-2018 16:11
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Apart from Trump’s racism, I just think the wall is a really stupid idea. It is a symbol for people who aren’t very bright. It conjures up images of a huge, sheer barrier like the Hoover Dam, or the wall in World War Z (maybe that’s where Trump got it from). More likely it would resemble the Berlin Wall, and look how long that lasted. The only reason it worked as well as it did was because people trying to cross it were shot at by guards from their own side. Or is that part of Trump’s master strategy? Is he going to get the Mexican army to shoot at fleeing families? After he makes Mexico pay for the wall, of course.

 

There are many problems with the wall. Cost is one. Efficacy is another. Illegal immigrants (I don’t agree with the proposition that they are necessarily a problem) are like water. They choose the path of least resistance. The border is already lined with fences and armed guards. There are electronic detection devices. Yes, people smugglers still get through gaps in the defenses, but they will still get through even if a solid wall extends from California to Florida. The wall is a physical presence designed to appeal to the unintelligent. It won’t add anything to the measures already in existence.

 

Where there is a fence, people find ways to get through it. Where there is a wall, people will find ways to get over it. The wall won’t make a damned bit of difference, but it is something Trump’s simple-minded supporters can see and feel and understand. Unlike electronic sensors and remote surveillance.

 

If a perfect barrier (which would have nothing to do with a physical wall) could be created, the flow would simply go elsewhere. Like drugs, people would be brought in by sea. Australia and Europe could say something about that. Smugglers would become more sophisticated and better ways would be found to leak people through checkpoints. More would come in by air, and from different points of origin. Minimising this would be achieved through better data processing techniques, not through a stupid, pointless, abandoned dinosaur wall.

 

On top of everything else, the wall would be obsolete before it was completed. Illegal immigration patterns are already changing. America is no longer seen as the promised land it once was. The wall would be a colossal waste of money, which is why even a Republican congress is so reluctant to authorise it. There are far better ways to keep people out, if that is the goal. The wall is a solution that doesn’t have a problem, a massive white elephant eyesore that would blight the landscape and international relations for decades.





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2019954 21-May-2018 16:34
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Stan:

 

Fred99:

 

Stan:

 

"With Islam as a religion I fall into the Sam Harris line of thinking"

 

I am well versed on Sam Harris's point of view on trump he is not my personal Jesus

 

 

He's been quite selective presenting strong anti-Islam arguments - but seems to have fallen asleep at the wheel WRT what's happening in his own neighbourhood.

 

He might not be your Jesus - but beware false prophets.

 

 

I think you also miss my point about Trump too. 

 

Trump is not my Jesus I disagree with alot of things he does I would probably have voted 3rd party if I was in the states.

 

 

You'd be damned hard pressed to find a 3rd party in favour of the views you express here, walls, anti-liberal, anti-immigration, anti-multiculture etc.

 

The Constitution Party perhaps.


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  #2019965 21-May-2018 17:12
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Fred99:

 

Stan:

 

Fred99:

 

Stan:

 

"With Islam as a religion I fall into the Sam Harris line of thinking"

 

I am well versed on Sam Harris's point of view on trump he is not my personal Jesus

 

 

He's been quite selective presenting strong anti-Islam arguments - but seems to have fallen asleep at the wheel WRT what's happening in his own neighbourhood.

 

He might not be your Jesus - but beware false prophets.

 

 

I think you also miss my point about Trump too. 

 

Trump is not my Jesus I disagree with alot of things he does I would probably have voted 3rd party if I was in the states.

 

 

You'd be damned hard pressed to find a 3rd party in favour of the views you express here, walls, anti-liberal, anti-immigration, anti-multiculture etc.

 

The Constitution Party perhaps.

 

 

Lovely assumptions there so nice that you know my political ideals better than I do please go on what are my views on the environmentalism and economics you have clearly formed some strange stereotype in your head about me. Or I could correct you:

 

  • Walls I have nothing against a nation state having a well protected border you are correct on this
  • Anti immigration where did you get that idea Im pro legal immigration I think its essential to help fill holes in the workforce
  • Not anti multicultural but I do want immigration to be numbers to be controlled so that you can effectively integrate those cultures that do come into the national culture.

 
 
 
 


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  #2020032 21-May-2018 19:46
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MikeB4:

 

I find the last couple of pages of this thread truly flabbergasting.  @Stan

 

1. do you read your posts ?

 

2. Do you really believe what you are typing?

 

3. Are you trolling?

 

 

I think he is doing pretty well and shows AN OPEN MIND. Nothing wrong with that ...... 


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  #2020065 21-May-2018 20:38
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DaveB:

MikeB4:


I find the last couple of pages of this thread truly flabbergasting.  @Stan


1. do you read your posts ?


2. Do you really believe what you are typing?


3. Are you trolling?



I think he is doing pretty well and shows AN OPEN MIND. Nothing wrong with that ...... 



No, racism is indicative of a mind that is well and truly closed and the key has been thrown away




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


gzt

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  #2020075 21-May-2018 21:06
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Stan: With Islam as a religion I fall into the Sam Harris line of thinking

Harris is a bit weird in some respects and not really qualified to go on about many of the things he chooses to. Far less qualified than Dawkins even though Dawkins is out of his subject area. I always find it weird that Harris sometimes shares a platform with Shermer and Dawkins. Harris seems to have some odd new age-y ideas about quantum physics in some respects and not nearly as skeptical as Shermer. Dawkins and Shermer could easily set him straight but they usually settle for giving him an odd look now and then.

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  #2020148 22-May-2018 02:03
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MikeB4:
DaveB:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

I find the last couple of pages of this thread truly flabbergasting.  @Stan

 

 

 

1. do you read your posts ?

 

 

 

2. Do you really believe what you are typing?

 

 

 

3. Are you trolling?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think he is doing pretty well and shows AN OPEN MIND. Nothing wrong with that ...... 

 



No, racism is indicative of a mind that is well and truly closed and the key has been thrown away

 

Do you consider me to be racist?


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  #2020155 22-May-2018 07:56
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@Stan that is not for me to decide





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #2020158 22-May-2018 08:19
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MikeB4:

 

@Stan that is not for me to decide

 

 

As an individual you can throw any label on anyone plenty of people get called names like racist or nazi, I have never been referred to as such by anyone who knows me IRL but I was curious if my political points of view made you think that I was given your response to daveb about my open mindedness.


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  #2020171 22-May-2018 08:45
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Stan:

 

MikeB4:

 

@Stan that is not for me to decide

 

 

As an individual you can throw any label on anyone plenty of people get called names like racist or nazi, I have never been referred to as such by anyone who knows me IRL but I was curious if my political points of view made you think that I was given your response to daveb about my open mindedness.

 

 

 

 

As I said that is not for me to decide. If you wish to do some self evaluation go right ahead, I have always found it to be enlightening and refreshing.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #2020172 22-May-2018 08:51
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MikeB4:

 

Stan:

 

MikeB4:

 

@Stan that is not for me to decide

 

 

As an individual you can throw any label on anyone plenty of people get called names like racist or nazi, I have never been referred to as such by anyone who knows me IRL but I was curious if my political points of view made you think that I was given your response to daveb about my open mindedness.

 

 

 

 

As I said that is not for me to decide. If you wish to do some self evaluation go right ahead, I have always found it to be enlightening and refreshing.

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion but I feel like that would be a tad pointless for me :)


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