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  #2022239 25-May-2018 08:16
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Fred99:

 

"We come in peace":

 

"There was some talk about the Libyan model last week," Pence said in an interview on Fox News. "As the President made clear, this will only end like the Libyan model ended if Kim Jong Un doesn't make a deal."

 

That worked well, didn't it?

 

 

 

 

Given NK concern over Libya as an example f no nukes = regime change, throwing that comment appears to me to be targeted to create a reaction that allows US to cancel the summit. The US doesnt want a summit or peace. As that means SK as an ally is diluted, and China is a bigger force, as in more hands on = USA shut out


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  #2022241 25-May-2018 08:36
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The media (and anti NK hawks) seem to have forgotten China's statement on what will happen if the US takes any preemptive military action.  KJU knows - so NK won't do anything in particular except hurl more verbal abuse bombs at Trump.

 

Reference to the "Libyan model" was intended to sabotage peace talks.  There's no comparison, Gaddafi was a tyrant but sometimes useful to the west, and he had nuclear ambitions but never a bomb.

 

Schoolyard taunting - shame that the head prefect is an idiot.

 

My prediction - end result of this shambles is that China will begin to resume trade with NK under the premise that KJU was ready to talk, and the US alone sabotaged that as KJU had been "doing the right thing".  (Yeah - he still has nukes, there's no commitment to get rid of them, the test site probably had to be demolished and sealed anyway).  Trump's been convinced by slightly more sane people in the WH that even his threat of trade war with China was doomed to cause significant economic damage to the US.

 

China is winning, everything.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2022249 25-May-2018 09:08
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Fred99:

 

The media (and anti NK hawks) seem to have forgotten China's statement on what will happen if the US takes any preemptive military action.  KJU knows - so NK won't do anything in particular except hurl more verbal abuse bombs at Trump.

 

Reference to the "Libyan model" was intended to sabotage peace talks.  There's no comparison, Gaddafi was a tyrant but sometimes useful to the west, and he had nuclear ambitions but never a bomb.

 

Schoolyard taunting - shame that the head prefect is an idiot.

 

My prediction - end result of this shambles is that China will begin to resume trade with NK under the premise that KJU was ready to talk, and the US alone sabotaged that as KJU had been "doing the right thing".  (Yeah - he still has nukes, there's no commitment to get rid of them, the test site probably had to be demolished and sealed anyway).  Trump's been convinced by slightly more sane people in the WH that even his threat of trade war with China was doomed to cause significant economic damage to the US.

 

China is winning, everything.

 

 

 

 

Yep.  I also feel as NK is keen, SK is keen, China is keen, that the three of them will have talks. If successful, as in peace and no nuclear proliferation, that they will seek a UN acceptance that NK is a recognised nuclear power who commits to no expansion (As USA and USSR did in the 70's) and that sanctions can now undergo a dismantling, subject to NK meeting conditions of peace. That may be the ending of the war, easing the DMZ militarily, so its now a standard border security installation. Off course the US wont want sanctions to change, but NK is not a US territory so it really has no right to rule there, its up to NK to abide by any UN rulings. But hey the US can still sanction NK, as NK will have access elsewhere for trade.


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  #2022253 25-May-2018 09:13
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freitasm: That coin is never going to be used now that he canned the summit with North Korea.

 

Trump could frame one and stick it on the wall of Mar-a-lago next to his Nobel peace prize.

 


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  #2022258 25-May-2018 09:22
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Trump is more and more looking like the madman that will spark WW3 or WW4 depending on your view of history. He thinks he is invincible and clearly believes that nuclear war is winnable. I believe it is time for NZ to review its relations with the US and send a very clear message, it is all we can do but we should make a stand against this evil it may even spur others to do likewise.





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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Be it ever so humble, there is no place like home.


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  #2022260 25-May-2018 09:27
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MikeB4:

 

Trump is more and more looking like the madman that will spark WW3 or WW4 depending on your view of history. He thinks he is invincible and clearly believes that nuclear war is winnable. I believe it is time for NZ to review its relations with the US and send a very clear message, it is all we can do but we should make a stand against this evil it may even spur others to do likewise.

 

 

 

 

It's not Trump I'm worried about right now. He couldn't maintain a continuous train of thought long enough to finish the procedure of starting a nuclear war. It's John Bolton. Up till now, people like McMaster were there bravely sacrificing their own mental health to keep the rest of safe from a Trump tantrum. Now, Bolton is there egging him on instead. He's the one to worry about.

 

Who would've thought the four horsemen of the Apocalypse would wear Freddy Mercury mustaches?





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  #2022262 25-May-2018 09:30
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Fred99:

 

Paul1977:

 

@MikeB4 @freitasm I have to admit, reading that article I didn't think it leaned one way or the other. Perhaps I'm just not up on all the facts, but it seemed fairly unbiased to me.

 

Genuine question: are you guys viewing this as a pro-Trump article? If so can you explain to me how it is pro-Trump, because I honestly don't see it.

 

 

Sure - on the surface it's not one of the far right's typical gushing endorsements.

 

I think it's giving some legitimacy to Trump's batsh*t crazy consipracy theory about being "spied" on, by discussing the issues surrounding the legality of Trump etc and how this or that "could" have happened etc.

 

Trump - the batsh*t crazy president has launched a verbal attack via twitter, attacking his security services by alleging they colluded with his political opposition, to create a diversion based on wild conspiracy theory he dreamed up (or saw on Fox).  It's an unprecedented attack on democracy. Doesn't matter that reasonable people would see it for what it is, unreasonable people also get to vote.

 

 So, here’s the bottom line, as always: we just don’t know enough at this point. We don’t know if the FBI targeted Trump illegitimately; we don’t know that the Steele dossier came out thanks to Team Obama manipulation. We do know, however, that Trump has every right to look into these issues.

 

Yup - we don't know if the Loch Ness Monster exists either - and people have every right to look for that too.

 

 

But it does point out that the conspiracy theory doesn't really make any sense.

 

I read it as saying 'What Trump is saying doesn't really add up, but as President he has a legal right to have it investigated if he wants'.

 

It didn't really give an opinion, one way or the other, on whether it SHOULD be investigated. Which, to me anyway, is less biased that most Trump 'news' I read from either side.

 

EDIT: I do think there is a real tendency for people to view anything that is not 100% anti-trump as being pro-Trump. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if we view everyone who is not 100% percent "with us" as being "against us", then we burn the bridge that moderate Trump supporters might otherwise be persuaded to cross.


 
 
 
 


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  #2022272 25-May-2018 09:54
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MikeB4:

 

Trump is more and more looking like the madman that will spark WW3 or WW4 depending on your view of history. He thinks he is invincible and clearly believes that nuclear war is winnable. I believe it is time for NZ to review its relations with the US and send a very clear message, it is all we can do but we should make a stand against this evil it may even spur others to do likewise.

 

 

I dont feel its that bad. There wont be a war or a regime change, only because China is there. Trump seems to think the US is the governor of the world, the supreme protector. Those days have slowly faded since last century, and Trump has helped it along. I foresee it will soon be Trump vs UN as the UN will foster peace on the peninsula, that is still very much an option, it doesnt need the US

 

 

 

I agree to walk away from the US, they will help that as we seek other trade partners due to impending tariffs


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  #2022275 25-May-2018 09:57
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Paul1977:

 

I read it as saying 'What Trump is saying doesn't really add up, but as President he has a legal right to have it investigated if he wants'.

 

It didn't really give an opinion, one way or the other, on whether it SHOULD be investigated. Which, to me anyway, is less biased that most Trump 'news' I read from either side.

 

 

Yes I agree that's what it says.

 

It's what it doesn't say that's more important. It begs an opinion one way or the other:

 

Either it's okay for a POTUS - without any credible evidence - as a countermeasure to some extremely compelling evidence that at least several people involved in his campaign were far from squeaky clean - to use his position to force the DOJ to conduct what's nothing more than a smear campaign based on his totally unfounded allegations that his opposition in an election (that he won anyway) used some kind of "dirty tricks" in his "deep state" conspiracy theory against a law enforcement agency that's investigating his administration - and Trump himself.  Or it's not okay for a POTUS to do that.

 

There doesn't seem to be any "middle ground" there. 


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  #2022278 25-May-2018 10:02
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tdgeek:

 

I dont feel its that bad. There wont be a war or a regime change, only because China is there.

 

 

 

 

Well, that and the whole 'I have a working nuclear weapon now, too, Don'.





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  #2022311 25-May-2018 10:28
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SaltyNZ:

 

tdgeek:

 

I dont feel its that bad. There wont be a war or a regime change, only because China is there.

 

 

 

 

Well, that and the whole 'I have a working nuclear weapon now, too, Don'.

 

 

As well as the capability to produce VX nerve agent and demonstrate use of it as a "reminder", probably also biological weapons, and now the ability to deliver these pretty well anywhere on the planet they wish.  

 

Smallpox anybody?  


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  #2022312 25-May-2018 10:29
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  #2022317 25-May-2018 10:37
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SaltyNZ:  <snip>

 

It's not Trump I'm worried about right now. He couldn't maintain a continuous train of thought long enough to finish the procedure of starting a nuclear war.
It's John Bolton. Up till now, people like McMaster were there bravely sacrificing their own mental health to keep the rest of safe from a Trump tantrum.
Now, Bolton is there egging him on instead. He's the one to worry about.

 

Who would've thought the four horsemen of the Apocalypse would wear Freddy Mercury mustaches?

 

 


 





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  #2022388 25-May-2018 12:03
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Fred99:

 

Yes I agree that's what it says.

 

It's what it doesn't say that's more important. It begs an opinion one way or the other:

 

Either it's okay for a POTUS - without any credible evidence - as a countermeasure to some extremely compelling evidence that at least several people involved in his campaign were far from squeaky clean - to use his position to force the DOJ to conduct what's nothing more than a smear campaign based on his totally unfounded allegations that his opposition in an election (that he won anyway) used some kind of "dirty tricks" in his "deep state" conspiracy theory against a law enforcement agency that's investigating his administration - and Trump himself.  Or it's not okay for a POTUS to do that.

 

There doesn't seem to be any "middle ground" there. 

 

 

The situation certainly does beg an opinion, but shouldn't the reader be allowed to form their own opinion based on available information rather than have it given to them? Isn't that what news is supposed to be like?

 

I don't even actually see this article as taking a "middle ground". It makes several points about how the conspiracy theory doesn't add up, and makes none in support of it. I don't believe that just because it doesn't state an explicit opinion means that it is giving legitimacy to the investigation.

 

I do wonder if peoples reaction to this article would be different if it were word-for-word the same, but not written by a well known conservative like Shapiro.


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  #2022430 25-May-2018 13:18
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So Trump calls on NK to do the right thing and rejoin the family of nations with de-nuclearization. I wonder when the US will do the same.





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Be it ever so humble, there is no place like home.


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