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  # 2061523 24-Jul-2018 09:39
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Fred99:

 

Some expert opinion from an article in Business Insider

 

 

We elected someone who devalues and denigrates our core allies and partners. While other Republican elected officials – and some members of the administration – voice support for American allies and traditional American international values, they certainly aren’t checking Trump in the way that foreign allies and partners hoped. 

 

 

 

It will be hard to reverse the gains of dictators and opportunists who take advantage of Trump policies to extend their influence,” Rothkopf said. “And it will take a long time for the world to trust US stability again … several election cycles for them to tell whether Trump was an aberration or just a symptom of a greater problem with America.

 

 

 

Trump does have the capacity to do “long-term damage to our alliances, our crucial international relationships and the international system that has been essential to our peace and stability since World War Two

 

 

 

Trump has done permanent damage to America’s global standing, but said that in electing him as president, the US essentially demonstrated it’s not capable of choosing “competent” leaders

 

 

 

Put simply, we will regress and spend lots of time trying to recover

 

 

 

If all this expert opinion is where its at, then its permanent? Well, ok. Not sure how it can be permanent damage as well as long term damage.  It also implies that the world did not see Trump as evil, they see the US as evil. Given that Trump is so much a POTUS that stands out like a sore toe for so many reasons, you would feel that the world will be glad to get rid of him and get back to normal, but if this expert opinion says when he has gone its still long term damage and permanent damage, that makes no sense. It implies Trump was just a worse POTUS and everybody else was bad anyway. BTW the US was never well trusted anyway

 

 


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  # 2061525 24-Jul-2018 09:43
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tdgeek:

 

If all this expert opinion is where its at, then its permanent? Well, ok. Not sure how it can be permanent damage as well as long term damage.  It also implies that the world did not see Trump as evil, they see the US as evil. Given that Trump is so much a POTUS that stands out like a sore toe for so many reasons, you would feel that the world will be glad to get rid of him and get back to normal, but if this expert opinion says when he has gone its still long term damage and permanent damage, that makes no sense. It implies Trump was just a worse POTUS and everybody else was bad anyway. BTW the US was never well trusted anyway

 

 

 

 

Trump is certainly a problem, but he's not the problem. The problem is that 40% of the USA agree with him, and a large minority of the other 60% don't disagree with him enough to vote against him. Getting rid of Trump doesn't solve anything. The underlying conditions that resulted in him being elected still exist.





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2061528 24-Jul-2018 09:47
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Getting rid of Trump won't solve anything, but it will sure be a step in the right direction. The big question is who comes next?

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2061529 24-Jul-2018 09:50
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You all forget how great he is. Threatening Iran is a genius stroke...remember what happens to Nth Korea...Trump made America safe again.


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  # 2061530 24-Jul-2018 09:50
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SaltyNZ:

 

tdgeek:

 

If all this expert opinion is where its at, then its permanent? Well, ok. Not sure how it can be permanent damage as well as long term damage.  It also implies that the world did not see Trump as evil, they see the US as evil. Given that Trump is so much a POTUS that stands out like a sore toe for so many reasons, you would feel that the world will be glad to get rid of him and get back to normal, but if this expert opinion says when he has gone its still long term damage and permanent damage, that makes no sense. It implies Trump was just a worse POTUS and everybody else was bad anyway. BTW the US was never well trusted anyway

 

 

 

 

Trump is certainly a problem, but he's not the problem. The problem is that 40% of the USA agree with him, and a large minority of the other 60% don't disagree with him enough to vote against him. Getting rid of Trump doesn't solve anything. The underlying conditions that resulted in him being elected still exist.

 

 

In that case we need to stop wasting time hating Trump as that's not the issue, he is just the messenger, the hatefest that goes on here needs to target the US Govt not Trump, just give Trump honourable mentions from time to time.


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  # 2061543 24-Jul-2018 09:54
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Pumpedd:

 

You all forget how great he is. Threatening Iran is a genius stroke...remember what happens to Nth Korea...Trump made America safe again.

 

 

Even though North Korea is not actually removing nuclear capabilities or even doing anything because the treaty itself doesn't exist. Only words in the air... Like his businesses.





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  # 2061546 24-Jul-2018 09:55
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tdgeek:

 

In that case we need to stop wasting time hating Trump as that's not the issue, he is just the messenger, the hatefest that goes on here needs to target the US Govt not Trump, just give Trump honourable mentions from time to time.

 

 

 

 

Point taken, but it's not even the US government: the government is elected by the people. I think Turmp hating does serve some useful purpose though as he is by definition the representative of his country to the world. The more the world dumps on him as the personification of everything that is wrong in the world as well as the cause of all the new miseries being inflicted on US voters by his actions, the better the chance of that other non-comittal minority to wake up. It's less likely to be taken personally than attacking US voters directly as morons.

 

 





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2061547 24-Jul-2018 09:57
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tdgeek:

 

SaltyNZ:

 

tdgeek:

 

If all this expert opinion is where its at, then its permanent? Well, ok. Not sure how it can be permanent damage as well as long term damage.  It also implies that the world did not see Trump as evil, they see the US as evil. Given that Trump is so much a POTUS that stands out like a sore toe for so many reasons, you would feel that the world will be glad to get rid of him and get back to normal, but if this expert opinion says when he has gone its still long term damage and permanent damage, that makes no sense. It implies Trump was just a worse POTUS and everybody else was bad anyway. BTW the US was never well trusted anyway

 

 

 

 

Trump is certainly a problem, but he's not the problem. The problem is that 40% of the USA agree with him, and a large minority of the other 60% don't disagree with him enough to vote against him. Getting rid of Trump doesn't solve anything. The underlying conditions that resulted in him being elected still exist.

 

 

In that case we need to stop wasting time hating Trump as that's not the issue, he is just the messenger, the hatefest that goes on here needs to target the US Govt not Trump, just give Trump honourable mentions from time to time.

 

 

I dont mind hating the fat screaming carrot demon, he deserves the hatefest as he started it.


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  # 2061560 24-Jul-2018 10:14
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I think Bill Clinton is the one who pointed out "It's the economy, stupid." Right now the American economy is booming like never before. Jobs are up. The stock market is going through the roof. Whether this has anything to do with Trump or not, whether it is a bubble and the reckoning will come later, whatever the reason, as long as it continues Trump's position will be secure. Only if the economy tanks as a result of his short-sighted policies will there be any major shift in voter behaviour.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2061625 24-Jul-2018 11:27
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Rikkitic:

 

I think Bill Clinton is the one who pointed out "It's the economy, stupid." Right now the American economy is booming like never before. Jobs are up. The stock market is going through the roof. Whether this has anything to do with Trump or not, whether it is a bubble and the reckoning will come later, whatever the reason, as long as it continues Trump's position will be secure. Only if the economy tanks as a result of his short-sighted policies will there be any major shift in voter behaviour.

 

 

Actually, the stock market is well down off it's 2018 highs - the DJIA for example peaked at over 26,500 in January, it's sitting at about 25,000 now.  Not a bear market - but the bull market from the Obama era seems to be well and truly over.

 

Jobs are up - continuing the trend of the past 8 years.  However inflation adjusted wage growth is basically zero.  There will be a 2nd quarter GDP growth figure heralded by Trumpists as "proof" of good economic policy.  They'll conveniently forget that Obama had two quarters with annualised GDP growth of over 4% and over 5% in 2014.  This GDP boost will be on the back of tax cuts and increased government spending (on the military mainly) and a resulting annual deficit of over a trillion dollars.  Is that a bubble?  Bubbles are seen in hindsight - one thing is for sure though - the current trajectory is not sustainable - and is directly against what the GOP has stood for in the past.  (Although their BS somewhat contradicted by the fact that Reagan and Bush II massively increased the deficit, Clinton reduced it, Obama of course increased it - but that was due to post GFC stimulus).

 

The economic harm Trump is doing probably won't cause pain to voters fast enough to influence outcome of the mid-term elections.  If the GOP is to do what they said they were going to do before 2016 - reduce the deficit, then as tax increases are off the agenda, they'll have to slash spending - and that probably means gutting what's left of a welfare system. 

 

I do think that a "correction" could be the thing that will take Trump down - it'll cost him support where it hurts, in the rural "heartland" and in the finance district.

 

People also have short memories.  They'll forget the massive gains made in their "401k" schemes over the past 8 years - and want blood if they see a negative return.  There's almost a whole generation who haven't experienced the displeasure - even if temporary - of seeing a negative return on their investments.  They won't see that averaged out, they've still done well.  They'll see a $50,000 capital loss year on year as reason to not buy the new car/house etc. 


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  # 2061760 24-Jul-2018 15:50
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The Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS)

 

Definition

 

 

Urban Dictionary offers up this handy definition: "Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is a mental condition in which a person has been driven effectively insane due to their dislike of Donald Trump, to the point at which they will abandon all logic and reason."

 

Justin Raimondo, the editorial director of Antiwar.com, wrote a piece in the Los Angeles Times in 2016 that broke TDS down into three distinct phases or stages:

 

     

  1. "In the first stage of the disease, victims lose all sense of proportion. The president-elect's every tweet provokes a firestorm, as if 140 characters were all it took to change the world."
  2. "The mid-level stages of TDS have a profound effect on the victim's vocabulary: Sufferers speak a distinctive language consisting solely of hyperbole."
  3. "As TDS progresses, the afflicted lose the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality."

 

 





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  # 2061880 24-Jul-2018 18:38
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With friends like Donald Trump, who needs enemies?

 

NZ Listener, 21 July 2018

 

 

Donald Trump seems to be driven by a seething combination of ego, insecurity and the base instincts of greed, vengefulness and triumphalism.
There’s no evidence of a coherent philosophy, moral code or even a rudimentary set of ideas.
He doesn’t believe in the enlightenment ideals of fraternity, liberty and tolerance, or the “golden rule”, or the concept of objective truth.
He doesn’t believe in anything that emerges from the media, except for Fox News and various far-right outlets, nor in what his officials and experts tell him.
And it becomes clearer by the week that he doesn’t believe in the West, the community of advanced nations that share a commitment to democracy and human rights and whose economic, political and military alliance has been the primary stabilising influence on international affairs since 1945.

 

In the space of a few weeks, President Trump, whose recent predecessors embraced, if not revelled in, their unofficial status as the leader of the Western world, has disparaged and undermined the alliance’s key institutions and organisations: the Group of Seven (G7), the World Trade Organisation (WTO), the European Union (EU) and the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO).

 

 





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  # 2061884 24-Jul-2018 18:47
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Just saw on the news that Trump is revoking security clearances of present and past officials who have criticised him. How  to dismantle a democracy, step by step. He seems to be exceeding everyone's worst nightmares.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2061904 24-Jul-2018 19:40
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Rikkitic:

 

I think Bill Clinton is the one who pointed out "It's the economy, stupid." Right now the American economy is booming like never before. Jobs are up. The stock market is going through the roof. Whether this has anything to do with Trump or not, whether it is a bubble and the reckoning will come later, whatever the reason, as long as it continues Trump's position will be secure. Only if the economy tanks as a result of his short-sighted policies will there be any major shift in voter behaviour.

 

 

 

 

Didnt you also say only war?


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  # 2061908 24-Jul-2018 19:43
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Rikkitic:

 

Just saw on the news that Trump is revoking security clearances of present and past officials who have criticised him. How  to dismantle a democracy, step by step. He seems to be exceeding everyone's worst nightmares.

 

 

 

 

Yep.  That's today's story. 

 

Here you go - from a few days before Trump's coronation:

 

A message to my doomed colleagues in the American media

 

 


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