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  # 2289887 4-Aug-2019 20:24
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Let’s pick up the pace Texans

 

In 2015, [Republican] Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas tweeted that he was “embarrassed” that his state was ranked second (behind California) in requests to buy new guns, albeit still with one million requests.

 

Abbott apparently believes, along with the N.R.A., that more guns make a society more safe, but the statistics say otherwise.

 

 

 

[sorry - drifting off-topic  😕]





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  # 2289890 4-Aug-2019 20:34
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Fred99: Another one in America - yet to be confirmed, some reports that are 10 dead in Dayton Ohio.
A couple of days after a Trump rally in Ohio. A few hours after >20 slaughtered in Texas.

 

Even for America this is unbelievable. I am truly at a loss for words. Are we going to have an international competition now who can kill the most people in a mass shooting?

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2289898 4-Aug-2019 21:04
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Latest CNN report has 9 dead, 16 injured in Dayton. My god!

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2289911 4-Aug-2019 21:21
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This image was posted on the gunman's Twitter page, but not necessarily by the gunman himself.





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  # 2289977 5-Aug-2019 07:15
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https://theintercept.com/2019/08/04/el-paso-dayton-mass-shootings-donald-trump/

After El Paso, We Can No Longer Ignore Trump’s Role in Inspiring Mass Shootings

by Mehdi Hasan

On Saturday morning, a gunman at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas, shot and killed at least 20 people before surrendering to the police. By all accounts, Patrick Crusius, the 21-year-old alleged shooter, is a fan of President Donald Trump and his policies. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, “a Twitter account bearing the suspect’s name contains liked tweets that include a ‘BuildTheWall’ hashtag” and “a photo using guns to spell out ‘Trump.’”

Incredibly, the nation woke up to more grim news on Sunday, with reports that a man suited up in body armor and bearing a rifle with high-capacity magazines had carried out a rampage in Dayton, Ohio, killing at least nine people and injuring 26.

Little is known yet about the Dayton shooter, but a four-page manifesto authorities believe was written by Crusius and posted shortly before the El Paso attack is full of the kind of hateful rhetoric and ideas that have flourished under Trump.

The manifesto declares the imminent attack “a response to the Hispanic invasion,” accuses Democrats of “pandering to the Hispanic voting bloc,” rails against “traitors,” and condemns “race mixing” and “interracial unions.” “Yet another reason to send them back,” it says.

Sound familiar? The president of the United States — who condemned the El Paso attack on Twitter — has repeatedly referred to an “invasion” at the southern border; condemned Mexican immigrants as “rapists” and Syrian refugees as “snakes;” accused his critics of treason on at least two dozen occasions; and told four elected women of color to “go back” to the “crime infested places from which they came.” (It is worth noting that Crusius, in his alleged manifesto, claims his views “predate” and are unrelated to Trump, but then goes on to attack “fake news.”)

That there could be a link between the attacker and the president should come as no surprise. But it might. Over the past four years, both mainstream media organizations and leading Democrats have failed to draw a clear line between Trump’s racist rhetoric and the steadily multiplying acts of domestic terror across the United States. Some of us tried to sound the alarm — but to no avail.

“Cesar Sayoc was not the first Trump supporter who allegedly tried to kill and maim those on the receiving end of Trump’s demonizing rhetoric,” I wrote last October, in the concluding lines of my column on the arrest of the so-called #MAGAbomber. “And, sadly, he won’t be the last.”

Gow I wish I could have been proven wrong. Yet since the publication of that piece almost a year ago, which listed the names of more than a dozen Trump supporters accused of horrific violence, from the neo-Nazi murderer of Heather Heyer in Charlottesville to the Quebec City mosque shooter, there have been more and more MAGA-inspired attacks. In January, four men were arrested for a plot to attack a small Muslim community in upstate New York — one of them, according to the Daily Beast, “was an avid Trump supporter online, frequently calling for ‘Crooked Hillary’ Clinton to be arrested and urging his followers to watch out for Democratic voter fraud schemes when they cast their ballots for Trump in 2016.”

In March, a far right gunman murdered 51 Muslims in two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand — and left behind a document describing Muslim immigrants as “invaders” and Trump as “a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose.”

And now, this latest massacre in El Paso. Let’s be clear: in an age of rising domestic terrorism cases — the majority of which are motivated by “white supremacist violence,” according to FBI Director Christopher Wray — Trump is nothing less than a threat to our collective security. More and more commentators now refer, for example, to the phenomenon of “stochastic terrorism” — originally defined by an anonymous blogger back in 2011 as “the use of mass communications to incite random actors to carry out violent or terrorist acts that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable.”

Sounds pretty Trumpian, right? As I wrote in October: “The president may not be pulling the trigger or planting the bomb, but he is enabling much of the hatred behind those acts. He is giving aid and comfort to angry white men by offering them clear targets — and then failing to fully denounce their violence.”

And as I pointed out on CNN earlier this year, there is a simple way for Trump to distance himself from all this. Give a speech denouncing white nationalism and the violence it has produced. Declare it a threat to national security. Loudly disown those who act in his name. Tone down the incendiary rhetoric on race, immigration, and Islam.

Trump, however, has done the exact opposite. In March, in the wake of the Christchurch massacre, the president said he did not consider white nationalism to be a rising threat, dismissing it as a “small group of people.” A month earlier, in February, Trump was asked whether he would moderate his language after a white nationalist Coast Guard officer was arrested over a plot to assassinate leading journalists and Democrats. “I think my language is very nice,” he replied.

In recent weeks, the president has again launched nakedly racist and demagogic attacks on a number of black and brown members of Congress, not to mention the black-majority city of Baltimore. When his cultish supporters responded to his attack on Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., with chants of “send her back,” Trump stood and watched and later referred to them as “patriots.”

So we’re supposed to be surprised or shocked that white nationalist violence is rising on his watch? That hate crimes against almost every minority group have increased since his election to the White House in 2016?
...

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  # 2289979 5-Aug-2019 07:24
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https://www.apnews.com/6d324c661d5f4a748c0990c8444efdb3

After pair of mass shootings, Trump remains out of sight

By Jonathan Lemire, AP

As the nation reeled from two mass shootings in less than a day, President Donald Trump spent the first hours after the tragedies out of sight at his New Jersey golf course, sending out tweets of support awkwardly mixed in with those promoting a celebrity fight and attacking his political foes.

Trump was to travel back to Washington later Sunday and aides said he would likely address reporters, but the nation did not glimpse the president in the immediate aftermath of a shooting in El Paso, Texas, that killed at least 20 people and, hours later, one in Dayton, Ohio, that claimed at least nine lives. Never seemingly comfortable consoling a nation in grief, Trump will be carefully watched for his response to the attacks, again inviting comparison to his predecessors who have tried to heal the country in moments of national trauma.

Investigators focused on whether the El Paso attack was a hate crime after the emergence of a racist, anti-immigrant screed that was posted online shortly beforehand. Detectives sought to determine if it was written by the man who was arrested.

In recent weeks, the president has issued racist tweets about four women of color who serve in Congress, and in rallies has spoken of an “invasion” at the southern border. His reelection strategy so far has placed racial animus at the forefront in an effort that his aides say is designed to activate his base of conservative voters, an approach not seen by an American president in the modern era.

Trump has also been widely criticized for offering a false equivalency when discussing racial violence, notably when he said there were “good people on both sides” after a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, that resulted in the death of an anti-racism demonstrator.

The shootings will likely complicate that strategy, and Democrats who are campaigning to deny Trump a second term were quick to lay blame at the president’s feet.

“You reap what you sow, and he is sowing seeds of hate in this country. This harvest of hate violence we’re seeing right now lies at his feet,” Sen. Cory Booker of New Jersey said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” ″He is responsible.”

White House aides said the president has been receiving updates about both shootings.

“The FBI, local and state law enforcement are working together in El Paso and in Dayton, Ohio,” Trump tweeted Sunday morning. “God bless the people of El Paso Texas. God bless the people of Dayton, Ohio.”

His first tweet after the El Paso shooting on Saturday hit similar notes, with Trump calling it “terrible” and promising the full support of the federal government. But just 14 minutes later, he tweeted again, a discordant post wishing UFC fighter Colby Covington, a Trump supporter, good luck in his fight that evening. That was soon followed up with a pair of retweets of African American supporters offering testimonials to Trump’s policies helping black voters, though the president polls very poorly with blacks.

Trump’s two elder sons attended the UFC fight, while social media photos show that Trump stopped by a wedding at his Bedminster club on Saturday night.

The motive for the Dayton shooting, which happened in a popular nightlife district, was not immediately known. But Democrats pointed to the El Paso attack and blamed Trump for his incendiary rhetoric about immigrants that they say fosters an atmosphere of hate and violence.

Federal officials said they were treating the El Paso attack as a domestic terrorism case.

Trump’s language about immigrants, and his hardline policies, loomed over the El Paso shooting.

He has described groups of immigrants as “infestations,” declared in his campaign kickoff that many of those coming from Mexico were “rapists,“deemed a caravan of Hispanic migrants as invaders and wondered why the United States accepted so many immigrants from “s---hole countries” like Haiti, El Salvador and African nations. Critics also point to his campaign proposal to ban all Muslims from entering the United States, his suggestion that President Barack Obama was not born in the United States and his administration’s efforts to curtail asylum and separate immigrant children from their parents at the border.

The president has also repeatedly been denounced for being slow to criticize acts of violence carried out by white nationalists, or deem them acts of domestic terrorism, most notably when he declared there were good people on “both sides” of the 2017 deadly clash in Charlottesville. The number of hate groups has surged to record highs under Trump’s presidency, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

“He is encouraging this. He doesn’t just tolerate it; he encourages it. Folks are responding to this. It doesn’t just offend us, it encourages the kind of violence that we’re seeing, including in my home town of El Paso yesterday,” former Rep. Beto O’Rourke, a 2020 Democratic contender, said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” ″He is an open, avowed racist and is encouraging more racism in this country. And this is incredibly dangerous for the United States of America right now.”

Other Democratic candidates also slammed Trump’s lack of response.
...
Trump has struggled to convey such empathy and support, and drew widespread criticism when he tossed paper towels like basketballs to hurricane victims in Puerto Rico. He has also, at times, seemed to welcome violence toward immigrants. At a May rally in Panama City Beach, Florida, Trump bemoaned legal protections for migrants and asked rhetorically, “How do you stop these people?”

“Shoot them!” cried one audience member.

Trump chuckled and said “Only in the Panhandle you can get away with that statement.”



 
 
 
 


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  # 2290090 5-Aug-2019 10:26
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The New York Times - El Paso Shooting: Massacre That Killed 20 Being Investigated as Domestic Terrorism

 

today

 

 

The authorities are considering charging the suspect with federal hate crimes, as well as federal gun charges that would carry the death penalty.

 

A federal official confirmed that an anti-immigrant manifesto was written by the suspect.

 

 

The gunman's manifesto showed a chilling amount of premeditation:

 


Gear

Main gun: AK47 (WASR 10) - I realized pretty quickly that this isn't a great choice since it's the civilian version of the AK47. It's not designed to shoot rounds quickly, so it overheats massively after about 100 shots fired in quick succession.

 

I'll have to use a heat-resistant glove to get around this.

 

8m3 bullet: This bullet, unlike pretty much any other 7.62x39 bullet, usually fragments like a pistol hollow point when shot out of an AK47 at the cost of penetration. ...

 

 

The gunman wore earmuffs whilst shooting to protect his hearing.

 

Meanwhile, the President plays golf ...

 

 

 

 





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  # 2290112 5-Aug-2019 11:07
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Rikkitic:

 

Even for America this is unbelievable. I am truly at a loss for words. Are we going to have an international competition now who can kill the most people in a mass shooting?

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that's not really the right question.  There is an international competition now for who can kill the most (minority) people in a mass shooting. It's hosted on websites like 8Chan, where anonymous members cheer the achievements of their peers.

 

The question should be - is enough being done about it?

 

The weaponization of angry young men to do the dirty work of authoritarians with power isn't new or unique. Al Qaeda and ISIL do it, Nazis did it, factions in Northern Ireland did it etc. It's done "legitimately" by states for military recruitment and training.

 

Whether terrorism charges get past the Trumpist cronies, Barr, McConnell etc is another question. It might be thrown back to a be a "simple" murder charge in Texas - and nothing will change.

 

Then there's a question about internet platforms using "free speech laws" to guarantee anonymity to users posting objectionable material. The first amendment isn't specific, but as I  understand it, SCOTUS interpretations endorse the principle that freedom of expression can't be limited because a person(s) posting controversial material remain anonymous.  Cases setting that as precedent actually "liberal" - ie leaflet drops critical of and suggesting boycotting of racist businesses. Identify yourself, and the KKK would burn crosses on your lawn - or worse. Supreme Court overruling state laws requiring that names and addresses are printed on leaflets.

 

The US didn't seem to get itself into contortions of constitutional law, shutting down Al Qaeda recruitment and propaganda networks.

 

These alt-right and far-right networks are terrorists. It's critical that this is recognized.

 

I understand that there were comments posted on NZ "Stuff" reader comments along the lines of "Send Jacinda over to El Paso so that she can offer hugs to the victims". Extreme right fascism masquerading as humour. Disgusting views - and given a platform in NZ.


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  # 2290119 5-Aug-2019 11:23
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Fred99:

 

I understand that there were comments posted on NZ "Stuff" reader comments along the lines of "Send Jacinda over to El Paso so that she can offer hugs to the victims". Extreme right fascism masquerading as humour. Disgusting views - and given a platform in NZ.

 

 

Oh the irony there. She did offer condolences and sympathy when it happened. Then she and the rest of the politicians went back to Wellington and enacted laws to restrict access to these types of weapons. Further more they started looking at building an international coalition to try to tackle the right wing hate groups who operate across national borders over the internet. I bet these same trolls were the ones who whined about that too. The US does need a politician who will stand up and take the action everyone knows needs to be taken.




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  # 2290159 5-Aug-2019 13:16
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Trumpy said, "There's no room for hate in this country." after the latest two massacres.

 

Great, so he's leaving?


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  # 2290162 5-Aug-2019 13:23
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Freedom of speech is a complex subject.

It's not helped that every country defines it differently.

Asia has the most varied response to freedom of speech, up to killing of journalists in the Philippines.

In the US, the American Civil Liberties Union, ACLU, has a large Jewish membership. They are freedom of speech purists: abhorrent speech should not be restricted.

They have given free legal representation to both the KKK and Neo-nazis when local governments tried to restrict their freedom of speech.

They are generally applauded for their efforts to defend, well, scum.

It's made even more complicated that some speech may be illegal, but not always: incitement to riot or imminent lawless action, fighting words, fraud, speech covered by copyright, and speech integral to criminal conduct.

For example, posting a video about picking a lock is generally not illegal. Even a video discussing building a nuclear bomb is not illegal.

There are obvious cases when freedom of speech is illegal, such as yelling "fire" in a crowded venue, but mostly it's unclear.

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  # 2290164 5-Aug-2019 13:24
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DarthKermit:Snip... Great, so he's leaving?

 

Hopefully ...to Russia!


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  # 2290186 5-Aug-2019 14:16
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DarthKermit:

 

Trumpy said, "There's no room for hate in this country." after the latest two massacres.

 

Great, so he's leaving?

 

 

The ONLY emotion Trump understands is "lust", the rest are just word salad to him.


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  # 2290632 6-Aug-2019 00:15
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The US government last passed a gun control law 25 years ago, that's a lot of presidents who have failed to do anything about gun control. Obama had the house and Senate for a couple of years, why no gun control measures then? The Daytona shooter was apparently a Democrat and Elizabeth Warren fan.

People trying to politicise mass shootings without acknowledging the history in the US are basically just grandstanding on the victims to score points.

Trump, Obama, neither have achieved anything with regards to gun control.

Spin all the BS you like but the fact is unless both sides of the house come together and seriously look at repealing the 2A nothing will change, ever. Doesnt matter who is in the White House or who controls the house/Senate.

Personally I think we will be having this same discussion in 10 years because Americans love their guns, Republicans AND democrats.


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