Sex toys and Waitangi Day - Whats your take on the flip flopping day.

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Forums › Politics › Sex toys and Waitangi Day - Whats your take on the flip flopping day.

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#1486464 6-Feb-2016 14:04

robcreid:

And Hone and his mum could have a bit of a rest.

Looking at his mum I'd say she's going to be resting permanently pretty soon anyway.

Batman

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#1486466 6-Feb-2016 14:12

Lias:

It's a day off work, but it's sure as heck not "our national day". I'm closing in on 40 faster than I'd like and quite literally my entire life it's been a day of division, hatred, and anger. Time we banished it to the annals of history and replaced it with a proper "New Zealand Day".

*edit* That aside watching Joyce take a cock to face was pure comedy cold. Best thing a protester has done in years!

I've been in "National Days" of Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, USA ... WOW the patriotism, you could feel your spine tingle, hairs stand, and if you had any emotions, cry your heart out, ready to die for your country. Ok, maybe not so much in Australia.

In NZ, we watch tv, spit on the PM, and bad mouth some ethic groups.

Linuxluver

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#1486541 6-Feb-2016 16:49

Mspec:

So sex toys being flung about and a Prime Minister not attending this year because he could not have his say.

Whats your take on this.

My take is that when a government is arrogant and people feel disrespected......they return the favour.

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Linuxluver

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#1486545 6-Feb-2016 16:51

robcreid:

Why do the official celebrations need to be at Waitangi every year? Multiple iwi signed the treaty, why not move the celebrations around a bit.

Might not stop the protests but it would at least mean we wouldn't hear the same voices every year. And Hone and his mum could have a bit of a rest.

Helen Clark tried doing exactly that and National called her a coward. Bit rich if they then do it.

The underlying issue is the same one: maori have been ripped off and arrogant governments talk a lot but do little.

Labour passed a foreshore and seabed law that lead to the creation of the Maori Party (split off from Labour) because Maori saw it as yet another confiscation of a right they considered theirs.

National is getting in the neck over the TPP....which takes no account at all of the Treaty of Waitangi.

It's basically the same issue: arrogant white folks ignoring maori issues and then looking all suprised when maori stop talking (as they have been continuously) and start acting.

The media (Fairfax and NZME) love a bit of Maori bashing.....and waaaaay we go!

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Geektastic

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#1486559 6-Feb-2016 17:18

Linuxluver:

Mspec:

So sex toys being flung about and a Prime Minister not attending this year because he could not have his say.

Whats your take on this.

My take is that when a government is arrogant and people feel disrespected......they return the favour.

Of course people need to earn respect. This modern notion that they are somehow owed it as some sort of natural right is incorrect.

Fred99

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#1486599 6-Feb-2016 18:05

Geektastic:

Linuxluver:

Mspec:

So sex toys being flung about and a Prime Minister not attending this year because he could not have his say.

Whats your take on this.

My take is that when a government is arrogant and people feel disrespected......they return the favour.

Of course people need to earn respect. This modern notion that they are somehow owed it as some sort of natural right is incorrect.

Subtle perhaps, but the world might be a better place if respect for others (and their views / what they have to say) was granted automatically, as a "natural right" - until they'd shown good reason why that respect should be withdrawn.

I don't like the trend I'm seeing, where people with opposing views are automatically placed in factions - then ridiculed. The TPP protests as an example, where it's become a perception that there are two sides, illiterate ignorant moronic dole-bludging sh!t-stirrers, fighting a psychopathic puppet bankster Prime Minister with the US film/pharma pulling his strings. Rational debate isn't possible any more. We'll all be the losers if the trend continues.

Rikkitic

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#1486606 6-Feb-2016 18:19

Geektastic:

Of course people need to earn respect. This modern notion that they are somehow owed it as some sort of natural right is incorrect.

I am sorry, but I respectfully disagree with this. Basic human rights do not have to be earned; they are rights. Respect is one of those. What is earned, is disrespect. People deserve to be respected by default. If they then behave in a disrespectful manner, they deserve to be disrespected. But it is not respectful to start from the premise that someone deserves to be disrespected until they prove otherwise. That is the same as starting from the premise that someone accused is guilty until proven innocent.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

amiga500

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#1486612 6-Feb-2016 18:29

Mr Key might be well advised not to make too much noise about the sex toy bearing in mind the linkage that people might make to the 'pony tail' affair.

Would not surprise me if the USA late night talk show hosts manage to take the p*** at NZ's expense.

turnin

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#1486647 6-Feb-2016 20:46

I can understand that Maori are upset by the tpp, NZ is losing its ability to freely pass it's own laws without a significant threat of being sued by a foreign committee that has no appeals process.

That's a big step away from where we are today. Maori and several organisations (with no agenda other than maintaining New Zealands democratic and legal efficacy) are quite right to point out that NZ is losing a big part of its sovereignty. No amount of extra money makes up for that and it does not look like it even covers the interest we pay annually on our "National" debt.

Key stood up some years ago and tore strips off Helen Clark for escaping her duty as PM at Waitangi, so key is not only being arrogant and belligerent, he is being a hypocrite.

All this in the same week we are told that labours education policy will cost too much. I think we are starting to see the cost of not educating.

Geektastic

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#1486687 6-Feb-2016 22:21

Rikkitic:

Geektastic:

Of course people need to earn respect. This modern notion that they are somehow owed it as some sort of natural right is incorrect.

I am sorry, but I respectfully disagree with this. Basic human rights do not have to be earned; they are rights. Respect is one of those. What is earned, is disrespect. People deserve to be respected by default. If they then behave in a disrespectful manner, they deserve to be disrespected. But it is not respectful to start from the premise that someone deserves to be disrespected until they prove otherwise. That is the same as starting from the premise that someone accused is guilty until proven innocent.

Basic human rights are things like the right not to be dragged from your home at midnight and disappeared to the Lubyanka to be beaten with rubber hoses - not some nefarious right to "respect" that just makes those demanding sound like those idiot gangsta rap fools waving Desert Eagles and muttering "you ain't showing me no respect".

Rikkitic

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#1486688 6-Feb-2016 22:27

I think we have a different understanding of respect, not that I agree with those idiot gangsta rap fools.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Dratsab

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#1486700 6-Feb-2016 23:13

amiga500: Would not surprise me if the USA late night talk show hosts manage to take the p*** at NZ's expense.

Ouranos

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#1486743 7-Feb-2016 06:39

Linuxluver:

National is getting in the neck over the TPP....which takes no account at all of the Treaty of Waitangi.

As is usually the way with such protests, the arguments are driven by fear, uncertainty, and doubt based on ignorance of the facts.

The following is from a brief about the TPP:

TPP includes a specific provision preserving the pre-eminence of the Treaty of Waitangi in New Zealand and nothing in TPP will prevent the Crown from meeting its obligations to Maori. New Zealand’s interpretation of the Treaty of Waitangi is not subject to the dispute settlement provisions of TPP

Source: www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/all/files/TPP-Q&A-Oct-2015.pdf

Of course, since the brief was issued by the Government it will be seen by some people as merely propaganda. As if protesters are the source of the truth.

Rikkitic

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#1486754 7-Feb-2016 07:53

I am not in favour of the TPPA because I fear it will be used by American corporate interests as a control mechanism to place limits on the way people use the Internet and also to restrict individual freedom in other ways by making illegal things that currently are not, particularly in the area of copyright protection.

Many people, including myself, feel a sense of unease about the way the TPP agreement was concluded, and the way it is being rammed through with only token public consultation after the fact. I think it is arrogant and disrespectful to be dismissive of this sense of unease just because some people are not able to articulate it properly. Whether they can explain it clearly or not, this is how they feel, and it is not going to go away. A wise politician is not one who ignores how people feel.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#1486758 7-Feb-2016 08:20

Rikkitic:
I am not in favour of the TPPA because I fear it will be used by American corporate interests as a control mechanism to place limits on the way people use the Internet and also to restrict individual freedom in other ways by making illegal things that currently are not, particularly in the area of copyright protection.

Many people, including myself, feel a sense of unease about the way the TPP agreement was concluded, and the way it is being rammed through with only token public consultation after the fact. I think it is arrogant and disrespectful to be dismissive of this sense of unease just because some people are not able to articulate it properly. Whether they can explain it clearly or not, this is how they feel, and it is not going to go away. A wise politician is not one who ignores how people feel.

I am neither for nor against TPPA, there is simply insufficient information to enable an informed conclusion and in that lays Mr Key's mistake. What should happen is full and open disclosure and consultation with the NZ public and Iwi.
This needs to happen and full parliamentary debate before any ratification takes place.

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