Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | ... | 45
12549 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2222

Trusted

  Reply # 1524736 2-Apr-2016 18:26
2 people support this post
Send private message

loathe:

tdgeek:
loathe:


Prohibition is demonstrably inefficacious.




As with alcohol. What do you propose?


 


Treat it for what it is, a societal and health problem, not one of criminal liability.



That's an easy way out. I propose no ACC of medical cost funding for drunks or stoners. User pays, that's fair

12602 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5914

Trusted

  Reply # 1524737 2-Apr-2016 18:27
Send private message

Fred99:

 

MikeB4: I worked too much as the Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, there needs to be better fences at the top of the cliff not less.

 

 

 

Yes I agree - getting evil gangsters to stop throwing our children over the fence at the top of the cliff is a great idea.
Removing the massive profit motive - the size of those profits which has been inflated by the abject failure of the "war on drugs" - is the best way to achieve it. 

 

 

 

 

Will not remove the problem just changes it.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


12549 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2222

Trusted

  Reply # 1524741 2-Apr-2016 18:38
Send private message

Exactly. The profit takers can change their business model, but what about the customers? The kids the uninformed that ends up wherever ?

4422 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1931

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1524742 2-Apr-2016 18:40
One person supports this post
Send private message

tdgeek:

That's an easy way out. I propose no ACC of medical cost funding for drunks or stoners. User pays, that's fair

 

 

 

Except that that's not how it works right now, is it? Users don't pay for their police, lawyers, doctors bills, victim restitution, or any of that... All of that costs a lot more than supplying them with a small amount of clean drugs and equipment.





iPad Air + iPhone SE + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


6688 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3444


  Reply # 1524755 2-Apr-2016 18:56
One person supports this post
Send private message

MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeB4: I worked too much as the Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, there needs to be better fences at the top of the cliff not less.

 

 

 

Yes I agree - getting evil gangsters to stop throwing our children over the fence at the top of the cliff is a great idea.
Removing the massive profit motive - the size of those profits which has been inflated by the abject failure of the "war on drugs" - is the best way to achieve it. 

 

 

 

 

Will not remove the problem just changes it.

 

 

 

 

Nobody claims it will completely remove the problem.  But it will stop billions of dollars of illicit cash transactions - gangsters making massive amounts money from throwing children over the cliff.  Even if that's all it would achieve, I'd still support decriminalisation 100%. 


12549 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2222

Trusted

  Reply # 1524758 2-Apr-2016 18:57
Send private message

SaltyNZ:

tdgeek:

That's an easy way out. I propose no ACC of medical cost funding for drunks or stoners. User pays, that's fair


 


Except that that's not how it works right now, is it? Users don't pay for their police, lawyers, doctors bills, victim restitution, or any of that... All of that costs a lot more than supplying them with a small amount of clean drugs and equipment.



They don't . Get coverage for accidents . Drunks or stoners are not accidents

12549 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2222

Trusted

  Reply # 1524761 2-Apr-2016 19:01
Send private message

Fred99:

MikeB4:


Fred99:


MikeB4: I worked too much as the Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, there needs to be better fences at the top of the cliff not less.


 


Yes I agree - getting evil gangsters to stop throwing our children over the fence at the top of the cliff is a great idea.
Removing the massive profit motive - the size of those profits which has been inflated by the abject failure of the "war on drugs" - is the best way to achieve it. 



 


Will not remove the problem just changes it.



 


Nobody claims it will completely remove the problem.  But it will stop billions of dollars of illicit cash transactions - gangsters making massive amounts money from throwing children over the cliff.  Even if that's all it would achieve, I'd still support decriminalisation 100%. 



Explain to me how tha gangs will be out of business. And how the children won't be exposed

12602 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5914

Trusted

  Reply # 1524765 2-Apr-2016 19:12
Send private message

Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeB4: I worked too much as the Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, there needs to be better fences at the top of the cliff not less.

 

 

 

Yes I agree - getting evil gangsters to stop throwing our children over the fence at the top of the cliff is a great idea.
Removing the massive profit motive - the size of those profits which has been inflated by the abject failure of the "war on drugs" - is the best way to achieve it. 

 

 

 

 

Will not remove the problem just changes it.

 

 

 

 

Nobody claims it will completely remove the problem.  But it will stop billions of dollars of illicit cash transactions - gangsters making massive amounts money from throwing children over the cliff.  Even if that's all it would achieve, I'd still support decriminalisation 100%. 

 

 

 

 

Same gangsters different product, but then you add a whole host of social and medical problems as a result of increased drug abuse.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


BDFL - Memuneh
60801 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 11680

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1524774 2-Apr-2016 19:34
7 people support this post
Send private message

Think of prostitution. It is legal here and (I am yet to find studies) I believe because it is legal there is lots of savings - social and money. There's a smaller risk of gang associations controlling this industry, workers feel safer and know they can report stupid behaviour to police without being criminalised themselves, etc.

 

Compare to America where there's a "War on prostitution". The amount of police resources spent on enforcing the laws. The mafia controlling the industry. People's lives destroyed just because they wanted to have innocent fun. Workers being treated as criminals even when they're the victims reporting some crime or abuse.

 

Now apply this to the drug trade. Move the power away from trafficking. I'd say there's more danger in being a dealer or as a user buying something that has no quality control.

 

Making it illegal will not eliminate it. Making it legal reduces the impact on society.





12602 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5914

Trusted

  Reply # 1524777 2-Apr-2016 19:39
Send private message

freitasm:

 

Think of prostitution. It is legal here and (I am yet to find studies) I believe because it is legal there is lots of savings - social and money. There's a smaller risk of gang associations controlling this industry, workers feel safer and know they can report stupid behaviour to police without being criminalised themselves, etc.

 

Compare to America where there's a "War on prostitution". The amount of police resources spent on enforcing the laws. The mafia controlling the industry. People's lives destroyed just because they wanted to have innocent fun. Workers being treated as criminals even when they're the victims.

 

Now apply this to the drug trade. Move the power away from trafficking. I'd say there's more danger in being a dealer or as a user buying something that has no quality control.

 

Making it illegal will not eliminate it. Making it legal reduces the impact on society.

 

 

 

 

I disagree, legalizing drug does not eliminate the problems, the criminal element moves to something else. However you still have the drug problems but they escalate as there will be more drugs and easier access to them and trust me that will be  nightmare. I say that from professional experience.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


BDFL - Memuneh
60801 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 11680

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1524779 2-Apr-2016 19:41
3 people support this post
Send private message

MikeB4:

 

freitasm:

 

Think of prostitution. It is legal here and (I am yet to find studies) I believe because it is legal there is lots of savings - social and money. There's a smaller risk of gang associations controlling this industry, workers feel safer and know they can report stupid behaviour to police without being criminalised themselves, etc.

 

Compare to America where there's a "War on prostitution". The amount of police resources spent on enforcing the laws. The mafia controlling the industry. People's lives destroyed just because they wanted to have innocent fun. Workers being treated as criminals even when they're the victims.

 

Now apply this to the drug trade. Move the power away from trafficking. I'd say there's more danger in being a dealer or as a user buying something that has no quality control.

 

Making it illegal will not eliminate it. Making it legal reduces the impact on society.

 

 

I disagree, legalizing drug does not eliminate the problems, the criminal element moves to something else. However you still have the drug problems but they escalate as there will be more drugs and easier access to them and trust me that will be  nightmare. I say that from professional experience.

 

 

I didn't say it eliminates the problem. But certainly making it illegal doesn't eliminate either.

 

The decision is then which one has a lesser social impact.





6688 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3444


  Reply # 1524791 2-Apr-2016 20:00
One person supports this post
Send private message

MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeB4: I worked too much as the Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, there needs to be better fences at the top of the cliff not less.

 

 

 

Yes I agree - getting evil gangsters to stop throwing our children over the fence at the top of the cliff is a great idea.
Removing the massive profit motive - the size of those profits which has been inflated by the abject failure of the "war on drugs" - is the best way to achieve it. 

 

 

 

 

Will not remove the problem just changes it.

 

 

 

 

Nobody claims it will completely remove the problem.  But it will stop billions of dollars of illicit cash transactions - gangsters making massive amounts money from throwing children over the cliff.  Even if that's all it would achieve, I'd still support decriminalisation 100%. 

 

 

 

 

Same gangsters different product, but then you add a whole host of social and medical problems as a result of increased drug abuse.

 

 

 

 

What "increased drug abuse".  The only country (Portugal) where this has been implemented properly, drug abuse has decreased. 10 pages in to this thread - and that hasn't sunk in.

 

 

 

What "product" will the gangsters turn to?  That's a serious question.  I'm really struggling to think of anything at all that's going to provide the revenue stream they've enjoyed, where the "customers" are so desperate for the product they'll commit serious crimes to get the extortionate amount of money to pay, where the profit margins are so huge that they're happy to sacrifice workers in places where the "war on drugs" has been taken such extremes that governments execute low-level black marketeers acting as couriers, that those couriers know the penalties but will take the risks, that law enforcement is corrupted to the the top by bribes...

 

It's an old saying that if you keep doing what you've always been doing - you'll keep getting what you've always been getting.  And what we have been getting is absolutely horrendous - it must change.

 

 


12602 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5914

Trusted

  Reply # 1524803 2-Apr-2016 20:09
Send private message

So drugs become legal, the criminals become law abiding upright citizens and drug use drops away and we all   live happily ever after.

 

 

 

 

 

 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


BDFL - Memuneh
60801 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 11680

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1524807 2-Apr-2016 20:11
2 people support this post
Send private message

No, they won't become law abiding citizens. But this will make some people think twice before going to the black market. And that reduces the criminals' power.

 

It's about MANAGING the risk. 





6688 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3444


  Reply # 1524809 2-Apr-2016 20:16
Send private message

MikeB4:

 

So drugs become legal, the criminals become law abiding upright citizens and drug use drops away and we all   live happily ever after.

 

 

Cognitive dissonance.

 

Drug use becomes "decriminalised" not "legal" and sold in your corner dairy.

 

The criminals lose a massive revenue stream.

 

Drug use drops - yes - even if not by much, but the harm to users is massively reduced, and the harm to society by way of their property crime to support habits vanishes.

 

 


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | ... | 45
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central launches
Posted 10-Jul-2018 10:40


Spark completes first milestone in voice platform upgrade
Posted 10-Jul-2018 09:36


Microsoft ices heated developers
Posted 6-Jul-2018 20:16


PB Technologies charged for its extended warranties and warned for bait advertising
Posted 3-Jul-2018 15:45


Almost 20,000 people claim credits from Spark
Posted 29-Jun-2018 10:40


Cove sells NZ's first insurance policy via chatbot
Posted 25-Jun-2018 10:04


N4L helping TAKA Trust bridge the digital divide for Lower Hutt students
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:08


Winners Announced for 2018 CIO Awards
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:03


Logitech Rally sets new standard for USB-connected video conference cameras
Posted 18-Jun-2018 09:27


Russell Stanners steps down as Vodafone NZ CEO
Posted 12-Jun-2018 09:13


Intergen recognised as 2018 Microsoft Country Partner of the Year for New Zealand
Posted 12-Jun-2018 08:00


Finalists Announced For Microsoft NZ Partner Awards
Posted 6-Jun-2018 15:12


Vocus Group and Vodafone announce joint venture to accelerate fibre innovation
Posted 5-Jun-2018 10:52


Kogan.com to launch Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 4-Jun-2018 14:34


Enable doubles fibre broadband speeds for its most popular wholesale service in Christchurch
Posted 2-Jun-2018 20:07



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.