They lost the war on drugs

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Reply # 1536407 20-Apr-2016 11:10

SaltyNZ:

MikeB4:

Some folks seem to think that drug related crime (better term is substance abuse) is mainly as a result of the manufacture and supply, it is not. If it were why the level of crime and violent crime around alcohol a legalised drug ?

There are multiple types of crime related to drug abuse. Without wanting to in any way belittle it as an issue, prohibiting alcohol would no more stop abusers getting drunk and beating their families than prohibiting P has stopped abusers doing it. But it would certainly cause a whole new wave of crime as people did illegal things to get their illegal alcohol. Prohibition gets you speakeasys and Al Capone.

And that's the crux of the argument: you cannot stop abusers from abusing simply by making it illegal. The only way to stop it is to make people not want to do it, and when they and their family and friends know it is illegal they are far less likely to seek help because they know what will happen as soon as they come to the attention of authorities.

I am not advocating prohibition for alcohol and I am not against any changes to drug laws, what I am against is a rushed political decision based on the next election and the need to get a coalition partner back in who has a track record of disasters.

I want to see in-depth research and investigation by appropriate multi disciplined professionals with appropriate peer review of findings. I would also like to see extensive public consultation and a referendum at the end of it.

These decisions will be for the long term and if we get it wrong the fix will long term and the affects profound.

Mike
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The great divide is the lies from both sides.

SJB

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Reply # 1536411 20-Apr-2016 11:15

MikeAqua:

OK, well it was pre coffee but still: 20% in <1 hour ... that's a better service level than a post shop or economy check in :)

SJB:

MikeAqua:

I see reported on Paul Henry today a survey that says 75% of users in NZ can access P within an hour.

I think you got that the wrong way round.

While I was watching the programme the final results were 20% could access P within an hour and 80% couldn't.

I don't really put any store by poll results from Paul Henry. They never tell you how many people voted.

MikeB4

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Reply # 1536419 20-Apr-2016 11:21

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SJB:

MikeAqua:

OK, well it was pre coffee but still: 20% in <1 hour ... that's a better service level than a post shop or economy check in :)

SJB:

MikeAqua:

I see reported on Paul Henry today a survey that says 75% of users in NZ can access P within an hour.

I think you got that the wrong way round.

While I was watching the programme the final results were 20% could access P within an hour and 80% couldn't.

I don't really put any store by poll results from Paul Henry. They never tell you how many people voted.

I wouldn't put any store in Paul Henry full stop and along with the rest of his entertainment industry.

Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

gzt

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Reply # 1536433 20-Apr-2016 11:54

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NZHerald: A group of rebellious Northland retirees are the latest to throw their weight behind the legalise cannabis movement, saying they want to have the choice of dying pain-free.

"I want the laws opened up so we can grow cannabis," said Otamatea Grey Power president Beverley Aldridge. "It needs to be as free as growing broccoli. Broccoli is an anti-cancer thing, and so is cannabis."

The 74-year-old said as she aged she had grown tired of watching friends and family members suffer serious illness, while the pharmaceuticals they were dosed with had side-effects as bad as the symptoms they were designed to treat.

It appears they want to get rid of the illegality. Decriminalisation would be enough to get them what they want. In either case it is a group that desires the choice.

tdgeek

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Reply # 1536443 20-Apr-2016 12:04

gzt:
NZHerald: A group of rebellious Northland retirees are the latest to throw their weight behind the legalise cannabis movement, saying they want to have the choice of dying pain-free.

"I want the laws opened up so we can grow cannabis," said Otamatea Grey Power president Beverley Aldridge. "It needs to be as free as growing broccoli. Broccoli is an anti-cancer thing, and so is cannabis."

The 74-year-old said as she aged she had grown tired of watching friends and family members suffer serious illness, while the pharmaceuticals they were dosed with had side-effects as bad as the symptoms they were designed to treat.

It appears they want to get rid of the illegality. Decriminalisation would be enough to get them what they want. In either case it is a group that desires the choice.

No one has an issue with that, and there was a headline on Stuff implying that was being pushed forward by Govt but its gone, or maybe deep in Stuff now. Medical MJ is a whole other issue and a good issue to make chnages

Fred99

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Reply # 1536445 20-Apr-2016 12:06

SJB:

MikeAqua:

I see reported on Paul Henry today a survey that says 75% of users in NZ can access P within an hour.

I think you got that the wrong way round.

While I was watching the programme the final results were 20% could access P within an hour and 80% couldn't.

Well you got something the wrong way around - that's for sure.

The figure is 76% actually - of users in Auckland and Christchurch who can obtain methamphetamine within one hour.

The Paul Henry interview was with Dr Paul Wilkins from Massey University.

The data is from: "The Illicit Drug Monitoring System (IDMS) is conducted annually to provide a 'snapshot' of illegal drug use and drug related harm in New Zealand." The report is here.

It's about 400 pages long. I haven't read it. It's a bit sad (IMO) that Paul Henry - who's always struck me as being so opinionated and with a clear agenda to promote himself and his own point of view first - was the one to pick up on this story. OTOH, treating serious issues as light entertainment seems to be the way media in NZ has become.

Rikkitic

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Reply # 1536450 20-Apr-2016 12:10

MikeB4:

I am not advocating prohibition for alcohol and I am not against any changes to drug laws, what I am against is a rushed political decision based on the next election and the need to get a coalition partner back in who has a track record of disasters.

I want to see in-depth research and investigation by appropriate multi disciplined professionals with appropriate peer review of findings. I would also like to see extensive public consultation and a referendum at the end of it.

These decisions will be for the long term and if we get it wrong the fix will long term and the affects profound.

Now that is an intelligent and reasoned response. I can agree with this completely as a balanced way to approach the issue. I just hope our representatives are as sensible and fair-minded as you are.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage

Fred99

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Reply # 1536459 20-Apr-2016 12:14

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Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

I am not advocating prohibition for alcohol and I am not against any changes to drug laws, what I am against is a rushed political decision based on the next election and the need to get a coalition partner back in who has a track record of disasters.

I want to see in-depth research and investigation by appropriate multi disciplined professionals with appropriate peer review of findings. I would also like to see extensive public consultation and a referendum at the end of it.

These decisions will be for the long term and if we get it wrong the fix will long term and the affects profound.

Now that is an intelligent and reasoned response. I can agree with this completely as a balanced way to approach the issue. I just hope our representatives are as sensible and fair-minded as you are.

I would NOT like to see a referendum on this. Referendums become politicised, the matter is serious, it should not be decided by short sound bites, posters and bumper stickers, or along party lines.

SJB

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Reply # 1536502 20-Apr-2016 12:31

Fred99:

Well you got something the wrong way around - that's for sure.

The figure is 76% actually - of users in Auckland and Christchurch who can obtain methamphetamine within one hour.

The 20%/80% was just from an informal poll the show had, not from any report.

tdgeek

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Reply # 1536506 20-Apr-2016 12:35

Fred99:

SJB:

MikeAqua:

I see reported on Paul Henry today a survey that says 75% of users in NZ can access P within an hour.

I think you got that the wrong way round.

While I was watching the programme the final results were 20% could access P within an hour and 80% couldn't.

Well you got something the wrong way around - that's for sure.

The figure is 76% actually - of users in Auckland and Christchurch who can obtain methamphetamine within one hour.

The Paul Henry interview was with Dr Paul Wilkins from Massey University.

The data is from: "The Illicit Drug Monitoring System (IDMS) is conducted annually to provide a 'snapshot' of illegal drug use and drug related harm in New Zealand." The report is here.

It's about 400 pages long. I haven't read it. It's a bit sad (IMO) that Paul Henry - who's always struck me as being so opinionated and with a clear agenda to promote himself and his own point of view first - was the one to pick up on this story. OTOH, treating serious issues as light entertainment seems to be the way media in NZ has become.

If a user of anything, can only be a user if he/she has a supply, so off course almost 100% of them can get their fix, and 76% within 60 minutes. That doesnt really sound odd at all. Is it a standard piece of information that is not surprising, being used for a news story?

gzt

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Reply # 1536522 20-Apr-2016 12:48

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tdgeek:
Fred99:

SJB:

MikeAqua:

I see reported on Paul Henry today a survey that says 75% of users in NZ can access P within an hour.

I think you got that the wrong way round.

While I was watching the programme the final results were 20% could access P within an hour and 80% couldn't.

Well you got something the wrong way around - that's for sure.

The figure is 76% actually - of users in Auckland and Christchurch who can obtain methamphetamine within one hour.

The Paul Henry interview was with Dr Paul Wilkins from Massey University.

The data is from: "The Illicit Drug Monitoring System (IDMS) is conducted annually to provide a 'snapshot' of illegal drug use and drug related harm in New Zealand." The report is here.

It's about 400 pages long. I haven't read it. It's a bit sad (IMO) that Paul Henry - who's always struck me as being so opinionated and with a clear agenda to promote himself and his own point of view first - was the one to pick up on this story. OTOH, treating serious issues as light entertainment seems to be the way media in NZ has become.

If a user of anything, can only be a user if he/she has a supply, so off course almost 100% of them can get their fix, and 76% within 60 minutes. That doesnt really sound odd at all. Is it a standard piece of information that is not surprising, being used for a news story?

I think there is a bit of a meth panic going on. A user is not the same as an addict.

That said, the meth users I come into contact with now and then can be fairly irritating. Everything has to be super fast or they cannot pay attention to it yada yada so they move on to something else yada yada. I suspect these might be the fairly intoxicated ones.

That said, some espresso coffee users can be just as bad. Anyone measured the dopamine release from espresso? ; ).

gzt

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Reply # 1536526 20-Apr-2016 12:54

tdgeek:
gzt:
NZHerald: A group of rebellious Northland retirees are the latest to throw their weight behind the legalise cannabis movement, saying they want to have the choice of dying pain-free.

"I want the laws opened up so we can grow cannabis," said Otamatea Grey Power president Beverley Aldridge. "It needs to be as free as growing broccoli. Broccoli is an anti-cancer thing, and so is cannabis."

The 74-year-old said as she aged she had grown tired of watching friends and family members suffer serious illness, while the pharmaceuticals they were dosed with had side-effects as bad as the symptoms they were designed to treat.

It appears they want to get rid of the illegality. Decriminalisation would be enough to get them what they want. In either case it is a group that desires the choice.

No one has an issue with that, and there was a headline on Stuff implying that was being pushed forward by Govt but its gone, or maybe deep in Stuff now. Medical MJ is a whole other issue and a good issue to make chnages

Medical and compassionate MJ seems to be widely supported and long overdue.

In addition this group and their supporters clearly want the ability to grow their own just like their veges for that purpose. That implies at least decriminalisation required.

Rikkitic

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Reply # 1536546 20-Apr-2016 13:02

Fred99:

I would NOT like to see a referendum on this. Referendums become politicised, the matter is serious, it should not be decided by short sound bites, posters and bumper stickers, or along party lines.

Fair point. I do think there should be a full rational public discussion as part of the decision-making process. Otherwise you just invite even more contempt for the law than already exists.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage

MikeB4

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Reply # 1536562 20-Apr-2016 13:08

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If we had two referenda for a flag we should definitely have one for something paradigm shifting and social impact as changing our drug laws.

Mike
Retired IT Manager.
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

MikeB4

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Reply # 1536574 20-Apr-2016 13:20

gzt:
tdgeek:

Fred99:

SJB:

MikeAqua:

I see reported on Paul Henry today a survey that says 75% of users in NZ can access P within an hour.

I think you got that the wrong way round.

While I was watching the programme the final results were 20% could access P within an hour and 80% couldn't.

Well you got something the wrong way around - that's for sure.

The figure is 76% actually - of users in Auckland and Christchurch who can obtain methamphetamine within one hour.

The Paul Henry interview was with Dr Paul Wilkins from Massey University.

The data is from: "The Illicit Drug Monitoring System (IDMS) is conducted annually to provide a 'snapshot' of illegal drug use and drug related harm in New Zealand." The report is here.

It's about 400 pages long. I haven't read it. It's a bit sad (IMO) that Paul Henry - who's always struck me as being so opinionated and with a clear agenda to promote himself and his own point of view first - was the one to pick up on this story. OTOH, treating serious issues as light entertainment seems to be the way media in NZ has become.

If a user of anything, can only be a user if he/she has a supply, so off course almost 100% of them can get their fix, and 76% within 60 minutes. That doesnt really sound odd at all. Is it a standard piece of information that is not surprising, being used for a news story?

I think there is a bit of a meth panic going on. A user is not the same as an addict.

That said, the meth users I come into contact with now and then can be fairly irritating. Everything has to be super fast or they cannot pay attention to it yada yada so they move on to something else yada yada. I suspect these might be the fairly intoxicated ones.

That said, some espresso coffee users can be just as bad. Anyone measured the dopamine release from espresso? ; ).

I agree to a point, I take a powerful pain drug, for security reasons I am not going to name it, some users will become addicted quite easily others not. I was monitored closely by my specialists when I first started using it to watch for problems. I can go for weeks using it every day then for weeks without using it and have no problems. So with addiction one rule covering all does not apply.

With regards to Methamphetamine my son explained the effects this drug has and its insidious way it will lead the user to requiring more and more very quickly. The details I do recall enough to repeat here but I will ring him later, but it is scary stuff.

Mike
Retired IT Manager.
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

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