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81 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1545599 2-May-2016 21:08
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tdgeek:

 

MikeAqua:

 

Prohibition is such an expensive failure, I no longer see the point of it ... 'drugs' have always been used, will always be used.  Prohibition seems to support an entire ecosystem of illegal activity, propped up by the high value and clandestine nature of prohibited drugs.

 

Are we wise to continue spend up large on ultimately ineffective enforcement of prohibition law? 

 

Or should we spend money on dealing with harm resulting from drug use?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont see the issue

 

 

 

Everything that is prohibited, has lawbreakers. Murder, rape, assaults, robbery. This means that every single criminal law is a failure. They aren't. The drug laws are no different. The war on drugs is just a political statement made decades ago by a politician. This just happens to be the flavour of the moment, nothing more 

 

 

 

 

I keep seeing this argument relating drug use to rape and murder. Saying that people are always going to do it of which yes, a small proportion of the population will rape and murder. But in saying this you're implying that even though the laws do not eradicate such actions, it does not mean we should legalize. Which is again true. But to relate that to drug use and abuse is wrong. It shows that fundamentally you believe someone who smokes pot or does other drugs are just as bad as murderers. 

 

 

 

None the less, here is the strongest argument for legalizing drugs. As witnessed across nations that have at least decriminalized drugs, they have seen a reduce in other more horrid crimes like theft, rape and murder. We know there is a strong collation between the recreational drug use of illegal substances and theft. People steal to fund their drug addiction. Another thing to note, Violence from crimes is often driven by drug use or more, failed drug dealings. Because criminals cant go up to the courts and say this man scammed me out of $20,000 worth of cocaine, they settle the issue with violence. What I am saying is to decriminalize drug use and to support those addicted to drugs with cheap, safe prescriptions and or alternatives, we would see a reduction in more horrid crimes like theft and murder.

 

 

 

The current drug laws are much like a university student who knows he needs to complete his thesis. He has good intentions to get it done but other than the odd crack down on it, he leaves it in his bag, trying not to think about it. As time ticks by, the impending issue grows in its severity. He knows if he doesn't start, he will fail it. He knows the end point. If he works on it, he doesn't know if he will pass or fail. If he has enough time and resources to combat the issue. On one hand he could fix it, he could try working hard on it. On the other hand, it is just easier to do as he has always done and just accept the consequences.

 

Society is like this student, Except a large proportion of us have decided we do not believe any other way will work so what is the point? This is again much like the global warming issue. A lot of people think, even if it is true, we're probably too late anyway and so what is the point in trying to fix something that we do no believe we can fix?


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1545605 2-May-2016 21:17
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Question considering the abuse of prescription drugs are now in the news (And this hits home for me because it is the exact same issue I wen't down) 

 

 

 

What is your opinion on what we should do to stop the abuse of legal drugs? Consuming opioid medication along with alcohol and or energy drinks? Should we make it illegal to use pain killers with other drugs like alcohol or caffeine? how far do we go? ban coffee? or do we open a discussion and actually try to take both sides of the issue? 

 

Something New Zealand media is really bad at is discussing an issue from more than their side. It seems the only issue they're willing to take both sides on is speeding and whether 5km's over the limit is warrant for a ticket. But when it comes to issues like this, It is just a strict "drugs are bad, Cops need to do more about it"


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1545616 2-May-2016 21:37
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Louis Theroux has just done a great documentary on alcohol abuse.

You can watch it here, I think you'll need an unblocker.

Or you can watch here:


gzt

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  Reply # 1545630 2-May-2016 21:58
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Imho the Warriors should have had a two day decompression somewhere after a loss like that.

gzt

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  Reply # 1545639 2-May-2016 22:13
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Rudster:

What is your opinion on what we should do to stop the abuse of legal drugs? Consuming opioid medication along with alcohol and or energy drinks? Should we make it illegal to use pain killers with other drugs like alcohol or caffeine? how far do we go? ban coffee? or do we open a discussion and actually try to take both sides of the issue? 


I'm not at all convinced that the widespread prescription of opoid painkillers is medically justified.

These drugs were introduced to the market (the market is medical professionals) by pharmaceutical companies saying they were a fundamentally new form and essentially non-addictive. That turned out not to be the case. Under a big pile of evidence the pharma firms changed the marketing to avoid legal action.

Probably the prescribing is trending down in sensible countries like NZ but that is just a guess. (@NZtechfreak)

Mad Scientist
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  Reply # 1545641 2-May-2016 22:18
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gzt:
Rudster:

What is your opinion on what we should do to stop the abuse of legal drugs? Consuming opioid medication along with alcohol and or energy drinks? Should we make it illegal to use pain killers with other drugs like alcohol or caffeine? how far do we go? ban coffee? or do we open a discussion and actually try to take both sides of the issue? 


I'm not at all convinced that the widespread prescription of opoid painkillers is medically justified.

These drugs were introduced to the market (the market is medical professionals) by pharmaceutical companies saying they were a fundamentally new form and essentially non-addictive. That turned out not to be the case. Under a big pile of evidence the pharma firms changed the marketing to avoid legal action.

Probably the prescribing is trending down in sensible countries like NZ but that is just a guess. (@NZtechfreak)


Umm those things are controlled drugs. Like guns, nuclear active material, cell phone jammers, etc

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  Reply # 1545648 2-May-2016 22:32
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gzt:
Rudster:

 

What is your opinion on what we should do to stop the abuse of legal drugs? Consuming opioid medication along with alcohol and or energy drinks? Should we make it illegal to use pain killers with other drugs like alcohol or caffeine? how far do we go? ban coffee? or do we open a discussion and actually try to take both sides of the issue? 

 


I'm not at all convinced that the widespread prescription of opoid painkillers is medically justified.

These drugs were introduced to the market (the market is medical professionals) by pharmaceutical companies saying they were a fundamentally new form and essentially non-addictive. That turned out not to be the case. Under a big pile of evidence the pharma firms changed the marketing to avoid legal action.

Probably the prescribing is trending down in sensible countries like NZ but that is just a guess. (@NZtechfreak)

 

 

 

I don't think the prescribing in NZ is at levels even close to that of the US.
There's an issue with all prescription drugs in the US IMO (not just those that are subject to recreational abuse).  People expect because of the high price of healthcare (paid by their insurer) that they should expect to be prescribed what they want - so they demand it - or shop around until they'll find a Dr who will.


gzt

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  Reply # 1545651 2-May-2016 22:47
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What exactly is the stuff that the warriors and others were/are mixing with energy drinks?

Is it the oxycontin type stuff or something else entirely?

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1545657 2-May-2016 23:01
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gzt:
Rudster:

 

What is your opinion on what we should do to stop the abuse of legal drugs? Consuming opioid medication along with alcohol and or energy drinks? Should we make it illegal to use pain killers with other drugs like alcohol or caffeine? how far do we go? ban coffee? or do we open a discussion and actually try to take both sides of the issue? 

 


I'm not at all convinced that the widespread prescription of opioid painkillers is medically justified.

These drugs were introduced to the market (the market is medical professionals) by pharmaceutical companies saying they were a fundamentally new form and essentially non-addictive. That turned out not to be the case. Under a big pile of evidence the pharma firms changed the marketing to avoid legal action.

Probably the prescribing is trending down in sensible countries like NZ but that is just a guess. (@NZtechfreak)

 

 

 

From my experience, Drugs like Morphine and Oxy are not handed out like lollies. They're highly controlled and only given when absolutely necessary. for example broken bones or kidney stones. Tramadol on the otherhand is far less powerful compared to the other two and so is prescribed when drugs like paracetamol or brufen lack the strength. For example I was on 800mg's or brufen (pure nurefen)  twice daily to deal with migraines. they ended up losing their effect but tramadol was prescribed to help where normal drugs could not. Now the important thing to note about Tramadol is that it was developed to have a low limit. The dangers of tramadol are actually very high. A standard dose is 50-100mg's while a dose of 300mg's is enough to cause seizures and kill someone. Oxy and morphine will provide more of a "high" before reaching a dangerous level which is the reason why tramadol is so regularly prescribed. The issue at play here is caffeine and alcohol mixed with tramadol induce more of a high without drastically increasing the risk of seizures. Putting it in layman's terms, without caffeine (Though I never experienced anything from mixing with energy drinks) or alcohol, the "high" from tramadol is bugger all and if one were to want a high, they either have to mix it with alcohol or move on to something more powerful like Oxy of which in this country, is a lot hard to get. (broken bones or kidney stones needed to get oxy)

 

 

 

So in my opinion, Tramadol is a safe drug from abuse, though addiction is still an issue as people become reliant on it as it does boost your mood, especially for those who suffer from depression.

 

 

 

On a side note, I have not been on any opioids for the last month roughly, have since found my migraines were caused by a heart problem. Of which I take a small dose of Beta blockers to deal with it.

 

But if I had this issue again, and from my experience, nothing but Tramadol helped, If I was in so much pain like I was and was told I could not have a drug that I know would reduce the pain to a level where I wasnt screaming in agony in bed as it felt like a blender was blending my brain. I would be pretty pissed off. Opioid drugs, even if it can be used recreationally and abused, have a place as they are very powerful at dealing with almost all types of pain. Pain that not all pain killers can help with.


gzt

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  Reply # 1545660 2-May-2016 23:08
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gzt: What exactly is the stuff that the warriors and others were/are mixing with energy drinks?

Is it the oxycontin type stuff or something else entirely?

Anyway it looks somewhat dangerous:



It seems there are a variety of energy drink drug interactions with dangerous effects.

81 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1545661 2-May-2016 23:09
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gzt: What exactly is the stuff that the warriors and others were/are mixing with energy drinks?

Is it the oxycontin type stuff or something else entirely?

 

 

 

It was Oxycontin and Tramadol.


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1545665 2-May-2016 23:13
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gzt:
gzt: What exactly is the stuff that the warriors and others were/are mixing with energy drinks?

Is it the oxycontin type stuff or something else entirely?

Anyway it looks somewhat dangerous:



It seems there are a variety of energy drink drug interactions with dangerous effects.

 

 

 

That graph doesn't really say much considering it only takes into account people who have had a negative interaction and involves a huge body of drugs. In saying this, Half of these interactions could be paracetamol. We can not tell from the graph other than there needs to be more education about the risks involved when consuming alcohol and or energy drinks when one is on prescription drugs. 


gzt

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gzt

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  Reply # 1545668 2-May-2016 23:23
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It seems the big attraction for sportspeople is this is a recreational option that does not show on the drug tests.

Once again, another example where changing the criminal status of marijuana could result in less harm.

It is somewhat obvious that recreational drug use is extremely common and we are currently sticking our heads in the sand a bit.

gzt

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  Reply # 1545669 2-May-2016 23:28
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Rudster:

gzt:
gzt: What exactly is the stuff that the warriors and others were/are mixing with energy drinks?

Is it the oxycontin type stuff or something else entirely?

Anyway it looks somewhat dangerous:



It seems there are a variety of energy drink drug interactions with dangerous effects.


 


That graph doesn't really say much considering it only takes into account people who have had a negative interaction and involves a huge body of drugs. In saying this, Half of these interactions could be paracetamol. We can not tell from the graph other than there needs to be more education about the risks involved when consuming alcohol and or energy drinks when one is on prescription drugs. 


It says prescription drugs + energy drinks is a bigger source of emergency admission than prescription drugs + alcohol. I was surprised, but then I had not even heard of this prior to the warriors thing.

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