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  #1524053 1-Apr-2016 16:01
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michael001:

 

MikeB4:

 

michael001:

 

 

 

In my experience the biggest critics of illegal drugs are the biggest users of prescription drugs. I have no doubt that the same will be true in this discussion.

 

 

 

 

Yes I take prescription medication, I have a severe incurable degenerative disease that causes severe pain day or night and disability, and yes I oppose the legalisation of illegal drugs. Your point is ?

 

 

 

 

Proven.

 

 

 

 

Well your point was entirely invalid to start with, so I dispute that. 




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  #1524054 1-Apr-2016 16:01
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MikeB4:

 

 

 

Aren't the Dutch now tightening their drug laws?

 

 

I'm no longer in the loop but my impression is that the tightening is mainly against foreign young people due to pressure from their governments. I don't think it indicates a real change in policy though I don't know.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #1524055 1-Apr-2016 16:02
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michael001:

 

MikeB4:

 

michael001:

 

 

 

In my experience the biggest critics of illegal drugs are the biggest users of prescription drugs. I have no doubt that the same will be true in this discussion.

 

 

 

 

Yes I take prescription medication, I have a severe incurable degenerative disease that causes severe pain day or night and disability, and yes I oppose the legalisation of illegal drugs. Your point is ?

 

 

 

 

Proven.

 

 

 

 

What is your point?





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #1524059 1-Apr-2016 16:05
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networkn:

 

Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

Interestingly, I have never taken ANY of those drugs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd be very surprised if you haven't taken Panadeine/Codeine, perhaps been administered benzodiazepine, cocaine (HCL) as anaesthetic for nasal/eye interventions, ketamine in an operating theatre, but I guess there's a chance you've always been perfect in every way.

 

 

I am, in every way, just ask my wife!

 

 

 

 

I've got a wife like that too - aren't we lucky?


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  #1524063 1-Apr-2016 16:09
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Fred99:

 

 

 

 

 

That would require telling the truth about relative harm.  

 

There are still some here who seem to believe that one puff on a joint, and you're lost forever.  I'd believed that LSD was very harmful, but apparently it's nowhere near as harmful as suggested.  I know that heroin is very harmful, but it's also the best analgesic for end of life pain relief, unable to be prescribed in NZ because of the crazy US "war on drugs".

 

 

 

 

One puff is not the end, but every puff is a step towards it, the effects are accumulative.





Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #1524064 1-Apr-2016 16:10
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Rikkitic:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

Aren't the Dutch now tightening their drug laws?

 

 

I'm no longer in the loop but my impression is that the tightening is mainly against foreign young people due to pressure from their governments. I don't think it indicates a real change in policy though I don't know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty damned awful last time I was in Amsterdam, in winter.  The junkies asking for money for "bread" weren't Dutch, but from all over Europe.  And that's a problem with inconsistent laws in countries sharing open borders.  The end / change to the "war on drugs" needs to be global if it's going to work - not just for that reason, but also to destroy the profit motive for illicit drug production and distribution.


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  #1524066 1-Apr-2016 16:15
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MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

 

 

 

 

That would require telling the truth about relative harm.  

 

There are still some here who seem to believe that one puff on a joint, and you're lost forever.  I'd believed that LSD was very harmful, but apparently it's nowhere near as harmful as suggested.  I know that heroin is very harmful, but it's also the best analgesic for end of life pain relief, unable to be prescribed in NZ because of the crazy US "war on drugs".

 

 

 

 

One puff is not the end, but every puff is a step towards it, the effects are accumulative.

 

 

 

 

Yep - just like salt on your chips.


 
 
 
 




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  #1524068 1-Apr-2016 16:18
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I think it must be clear to everyone that I do believe all drug use should be decriminalised and regulated. Obviously some things are worse than others and there do need to be good control measures in place. Whether you agree with me or not (and I respect those who do not), I have one question I would ask everyone to carefully consider:

 

Is the current situation the way you think things should be? Does it answer all the questions? Does it solve all the problems? Is it a good way to deal with the issue? If you think that things as they are in regard to this matter are not ideal, then do you not agree that it might be reasonable to try something else? Is your objection to changing our approach based on real information, or is it just some kind of knee-jerk response? I'm not suggesting it is, just asking the question.

 

I don't think criminalising drug use works. It has been tried for years and I do not believe it has fixed or improved anything. This is the reason people (not just me) are saying the war on drugs has failed. It is time to try something else. My belief is that decriminalising drug use cannot make things worse, and will almost certainly make them better. But we won't know until we try. The alternative is to keep them as they are. So do you think that this is the best solution?

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #1524101 1-Apr-2016 16:25
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Rikkitic:

 

 

 

I don't think criminalising drug use works. It has been tried for years and I do not believe it has fixed or improved anything. This is the reason people (not just me) are saying the war on drugs has failed. It is time to try something else. My belief is that decriminalising drug use cannot make things worse, and will almost certainly make them better. But we won't know until we try. The alternative is to keep them as they are. So do you think that this is the best solution?

 

 

 

 

Nothing is perfect. It's the same as the argument for copyright.

 

The issue I have with your suggestion is you don't have any counter data to show what would have happened if there had been no "war on drugs". I think the "war" wasn't massively effective, but certainly better than nothing. 

 

Also, you need to separate the "war on drugs" term you keep using, from the desire by a small number of people who want to legalize or at least decriminalize WEED, it's just NOT the same thing, in ANY WAY.


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  #1524104 1-Apr-2016 16:27
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Rikkitic:

 

I think it must be clear to everyone that I do believe all drug use should be decriminalised and regulated. Obviously some things are worse than others and there do need to be good control measures in place. Whether you agree with me or not (and I respect those who do not), I have one question I would ask everyone to carefully consider:

 

Is the current situation the way you think things should be? Does it answer all the questions? Does it solve all the problems? Is it a good way to deal with the issue? If you think that things as they are in regard to this matter are not ideal, then do you not agree that it might be reasonable to try something else? Is your objection to changing our approach based on real information, or is it just some kind of knee-jerk response? I'm not suggesting it is, just asking the question.

 

I don't think criminalising drug use works. It has been tried for years and I do not believe it has fixed or improved anything. This is the reason people (not just me) are saying the war on drugs has failed. It is time to try something else. My belief is that decriminalising drug use cannot make things worse, and will almost certainly make them better. But we won't know until we try. The alternative is to keep them as they are. So do you think that this is the best solution?

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you believe Methamphetamines and similar should be legalised?

 

 

 

You really need to do some research on the physical, psychological, social effects of using hard drugs like these? Legalising will just change the battle not stop the war.





Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #1524107 1-Apr-2016 16:29
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So you believe Methamphetamines and similar should be legalised?

 

 

 

You really need to do some research on the physical, psychological, social effects of using hard drugs like these? Legalising will just change the battle not stop the war.

 

 

See my earlier post, Rittick is actually only talking about Weed, and has confused many by referring to the war on drugs which was for much harder and more addictive drugs.


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  #1524108 1-Apr-2016 16:32
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networkn:

 

 

 

 

So you believe Methamphetamines and similar should be legalised?

 

 

 

You really need to do some research on the physical, psychological, social effects of using hard drugs like these? Legalising will just change the battle not stop the war.

 

 

See my earlier post, Rittick is actually only talking about Weed, and has confused many by referring to the war on drugs which was for much harder and more addictive drugs.

 

 

 

 

I responded to this comment "I think it must be clear to everyone that I do believe all drug use should be decriminalised and regulated"





Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #1524109 1-Apr-2016 16:33
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I responded to this comment "I think it must be clear to everyone that I do believe all drug use should be decriminalised and regulated"

 

 

Ah right, so yeah I'm also keen to know if he/she thinks meth is ok 


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  #1524112 1-Apr-2016 16:35
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networkn:

 

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

I don't think criminalising drug use works. It has been tried for years and I do not believe it has fixed or improved anything. This is the reason people (not just me) are saying the war on drugs has failed. It is time to try something else. My belief is that decriminalising drug use cannot make things worse, and will almost certainly make them better. But we won't know until we try. The alternative is to keep them as they are. So do you think that this is the best solution?

 

 

 

 

Nothing is perfect. It's the same as the argument for copyright.

 

The issue I have with your suggestion is you don't have any counter data to show what would have happened if there had been no "war on drugs". I think the "war" wasn't massively effective, but certainly better than nothing. 

 

Also, you need to separate the "war on drugs" term you keep using, from the desire by a small number of people who want to legalize or at least decriminalize WEED, it's just NOT the same thing, in ANY WAY.

 

 

 

 

I suspect it was far worse than "nothing", not just to our (western) societies - but to people living in third-world producer countries, Afhganistan, South America.  It's not good in any way having a major part of your economy based on illegal production and distribution through black markets.  That's what the "war on drugs" achieved - worldwide.


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  #1524113 1-Apr-2016 16:37
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I suspect it was far worse than "nothing", not just to our (western) societies - but to people living in third-world producer countries, Afhganistan, South America.  It's not good in any way having a major part of your economy based on illegal production and distribution through black markets.  That's what the "war on drugs" achieved - worldwide.

 

 

So we are going to ignore the harm done by potentially much highly widespread drug use in the countries those drugs were imported into?

 

 


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