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  Reply # 1717181 8-Feb-2017 13:13
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Geektastic:

 

MikeB4:

 

I feel NZ should be distancing itself from this disaster and concentrate our efforts elsewhere. For the medium term there is not much to be gained by having close relations with the USA.

 

 

 

 

Aside from trade with one of the largest economies in the West?

 

 

Its a significant trade partner, but nowhere near top dog for us in NZ. If he tariffs us and others we will work together to reduce reliance on US trade. New markets, new friends, and existing friends become better friends. If we need to alter what we make and grow, we can do that, thats been agriculture in recent decades


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  Reply # 1717213 8-Feb-2017 14:08
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Rikkitic:

 

Geektastic:

 

MikeB4:

 

I feel NZ should be distancing itself from this disaster and concentrate our efforts elsewhere. For the medium term there is not much to be gained by having close relations with the USA.

 

 

 

 

Aside from trade with one of the largest economies in the West?

 

 

Fortunately the magnanimous Emperor Trump was such a lover of NZ dairy that the wall was opened for our milk and honey and all was well in godzone. [/fairytale]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trade runs both ways.

 

Also, high time we found a way to do something else - especially given the tricky period forecast for NZ agriculture in the coming year.






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  Reply # 1717214 8-Feb-2017 14:09
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MikeB4:
Geektastic:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

I feel NZ should be distancing itself from this disaster and concentrate our efforts elsewhere. For the medium term there is not much to be gained by having close relations with the USA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aside from trade with one of the largest economies in the West?

 



Sometimes it costs to make a stand. Reference 1939

 

Yes but it's not really the same thing, is it?






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  Reply # 1717224 8-Feb-2017 14:51
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I am wondering if this is more of a sign that the whole way of picking leaders is broken. Apparently he was voted in by less than a quarter of eligible voters. So he is only representing a small percentage of the population, so what he is doing is hardly a mandate based on those numbers. Although he did win fair and square based on the way the system works. But surely he should also be working on the fact that more actual people voted for Hillary and her ideas, so shouldn't he be basing his decisions on that as well, if he is working for all the people, not just the people who voted him in?

 

But we have the same thing happening in NZ, with mayors are getting voted in with the same types of numbers. It is all due to the low voter turnout, due to people being disenfranchised with the entire process and system. So maybe we need to look at the entire system, and whether voting should be compulsory like it is in Oz. Although they are hardly a poster child.


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  Reply # 1717232 8-Feb-2017 15:19
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mattwnz:

 

I am wondering if this is more of a sign that the whole way of picking leaders is broken. Apparently he was voted in by less than a quarter of eligible voters. So he is only representing a small percentage of the population, so what he is doing is hardly a mandate based on those numbers. Although he did win fair and square based on the way the system works. But surely he should also be working on the fact that more actual people voted for Hillary and her ideas, so shouldn't he be basing his decisions on that as well, if he is working for all the people, not just the people who voted him in?

 

But we have the same thing happening in NZ, with mayors are getting voted in with the same types of numbers. It is all due to the low voter turnout, due to people being disenfranchised with the entire process and system. So maybe we need to look at the entire system, and whether voting should be compulsory like it is in Oz. Although they are hardly a poster child.

 

 

 

 

People are not disenfranchised they still have the right to vote. Low voter turn our has nothing to do with rights being removed it has to do with rights not been used, this could be apathy or that none of the options on the ballot appeals. 

 

 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1717233 8-Feb-2017 15:19
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But what assumptions do you make about how non-voters would vote if they did vote?

 

Change the system (or just change turnout) and politicians will adapt their strategies to suit.  Someone like Trump can still get elected by using a different set of dog whistles.





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  Reply # 1717249 8-Feb-2017 15:53
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Is it possible the media hysteria about trump will become so shrill, only dogs will be able to hear it?





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  Reply # 1717251 8-Feb-2017 15:56
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MikeAqua:

 

But what assumptions do you make about how non-voters would vote if they did vote?

 

Change the system (or just change turnout) and politicians will adapt their strategies to suit.  Someone like Trump can still get elected by using a different set of dog whistles.

 

 

Thats what Trump wants you to believe. I don't think he would have had a chance in hell if the election was based on the popular vote, no matter the strategies.

 

Mind you, with the Republicans controlling house, senate and having the President, they will have ample opportunity to keep rigging the system, so who knows how the next merry go round is going to look like...

 

 

 

 





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  Reply # 1717254 8-Feb-2017 16:10
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MikeB4:

 

People are not disenfranchised they still have the right to vote. Low voter turn our has nothing to do with rights being removed it has to do with rights not been used, this could be apathy or that none of the options on the ballot appeals. 

 

 

I believe that people choose not to vote because they are disempowered... the system has been set up so that the majority can't actually change things. So, in the end, the system has delivered people a choice between Trump and Clinton, NEITHER of whom was what the people wanted.

 

When people feel that their vote will make a difference, they will vote.

 

My preference is for a Swiss-style democracy, where the citizens periodically vote in binding referenda. A question can be added to the next referendum by a petition with some reasonably large number of signatures.

 

 


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  Reply # 1717257 8-Feb-2017 16:24
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DarthKermit:

 

Makes me wonder WTF will this train wreck of an administration come out with next.

 

 

The sky's the limit my friend. Remember 2 words: post truth


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  Reply # 1717269 8-Feb-2017 16:36
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joker97:

 

DarthKermit:

 

Makes me wonder WTF will this train wreck of an administration come out with next.

 

 

The sky's the limit my friend. Remember 2 words: post truth

 

 

 

This message approved by the Ministry of Truth (1984)





Sideface


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  Reply # 1717278 8-Feb-2017 16:47
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frankv:

 

 

 

My preference is for a Swiss-style democracy, where the citizens periodically vote in binding referenda. A question can be added to the next referendum by a petition with some reasonably large number of signatures.

 

 

This is also my preference because of the principle involved, but it doesn't always give the best result:

 

Link 1

 

Link 2

 

Link 3

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1717288 8-Feb-2017 17:02
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Wife dumps husband of 22 years for voting for Trump:

 

http://www.dw.com/en/wife-dumps-husband-over-trump/av-37449759

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1717316 8-Feb-2017 18:03
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Sideface:

Pumpedd:


dclegg:


The White House has admitted that they will use the 'fake news' label as punishment to any press organisation that criticises the Trump administration.



 They are simply endorsing that being lying is good.



IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


Approved Ministry of Thought slogan #3 (1984)


Official coffee mugs are available:



 



Some days it is. Keeping up with all this ructions is tiring.

All Trump's bologna is going to negatively affect stocks (and therefore kiwisaver, retirement funds and managed funds etc.) worldwide for the negative sooner or later. I'm hoping for a short, sharp jolt and quick recovery rather than a protracted Trump presidency with a corresponding long, hard drop with a slow recovery.

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  Reply # 1717363 8-Feb-2017 20:01
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just remembered something. you know how Presidents get briefed about national secrets ...

 

and, you know how Trump said "you think our country's so innocent?"

 

I wish I knew which secret(s) he was referring to ...


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