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  Reply # 1668374 12-Nov-2016 08:26
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Technofreak:

 

 

 

I've seen several reports now saying the election result was the result of the "uneducated/blue collar workers" voting for Trump or Brexit, with the inference these people really don't know what they're doing and shouldn't have a vote.  

 

 

 

 

That is the stat that came out, but not the inference. The issue was they are the downtrodden and forgotten, and that as generally in the lower sector of incomes, the most affected by the Obama govt. It was too much, and time for a change for them. 


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  Reply # 1668387 12-Nov-2016 08:45
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Technofreak:

 

I've seen several reports now saying the election result was the result of the "uneducated/blue collar workers" voting for Trump or Brexit, with the inference these people really don't know what they're doing and shouldn't have a vote.   

 

 

 

 

I haven't seen that inferred (by anybody remotely credible) - especially the part suggesting that they shouldn't have a vote.

 

However, that the "numbers people" working on campaigns will very much use stereotypes around education and social class in polling, to spin their campaigns to appeal to those groups.  Those "spun" messages aren't necessarily overt - "dog whistle" messages can be an extremely effective way of communicating messages which would cause widespread outrage if stated blatantly. 
But Trump hardly bothered with dog-whistling, he seems to have decided that it wasn't necessary, say whatever you like, and if the media or establishment or even your own party don't like it, then attack them for being "PC" as a symptom of the "establishment".  He did it very well - it did appeal to those people - and more. Perhaps he didn't use pollsters, demographics etc - just had an incredible instinct - he's certainly quite the showman and seemed to be ad libbing much of the time. Incredibly, he managed to do it without alienating the hard religious right - the same ones who'd almost managed to impeach Bill Clinton, in a protracted campaign of howling moral outrage after Bill did something not very interesting at all.  I'm confident Trump's done worse.

 

Clinton's "we'll take the moral high ground" response seemed very lame - it made me cringe - even though that's what I would have done.  What else could you do?  Perhaps the problem wasn't with the (her) message, only with the delivery.

 

There's no need to say that Trump's campaign was better, he knew how to work the crowd, and that with the way things work, he won a democratically held election fair and square.

 

The result is hideously awful, in my opinion and in many others opinions.   The USA has IMO elected a tyrant, democratically, fairly, willingly.  

 

The "he's not my president" protesters are wrong.  He most certainly is their president.  If they continue with the present message, and there's more violence / rioting, they're going to be crushed.  Then when some of the Trump policies come out, there won't be room for credible protest.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1668389 12-Nov-2016 08:47
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I see he first tweeted that the protesters were unfair. Now he has praised them for their passion for the country. This chopping and changing seems to be a growing pattern. And mentioned in the campaign about his past as well.

 

All bets are off as to what he does with his policies if this is the case


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  Reply # 1668410 12-Nov-2016 09:39
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amiga500:

 

If Hillary Clinton had been as honest (non corrupt) as politicians such as Barack Obama, George H Bush, Angela Merkel, Helen Clarke, Norman Kirk, John Key, & pretty much every British & NZ Prime Minister, she would ....

 

 

be suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder. That list alone has a broad range of dishonesty, let alone the generality of "pretty much every British & NZ Prime Minister"... this includes a whole bunch of thieves, ratbags, and stinkers.

 

 


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  Reply # 1668415 12-Nov-2016 09:45
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Except for Helen Clarke, who AFAIK always played a fair game, conceding few goals to her opponents during her career.


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  Reply # 1668427 12-Nov-2016 10:11
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What I was trying to say that HRC did not have to be perfect in her 'content of character' but she needed to meet the low threshold of not being corrupt.     For example not being like the current President of South Africa!     All the Dems. needed was a personable run of the mill populist politician & Trump would have been stopped.     I think Kerry with an African American VP running mate would have stopped Trump in his tracks.

 

The Dems. also had a very lame slogan.   'Stronger together.'     This reminds me of 'Man for Man the Stronger Team' which National used in 1972.


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  Reply # 1668431 12-Nov-2016 10:18
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amiga500:

What I was trying to say that HRC did not have to be perfect in her 'content of character' but she needed to meet the low threshold of not being corrupt.     For example not being like the current President of South Africa!     All the Dems. needed was a personable run of the mill populist politician & Trump would have been stopped.     I think Kerry with an African American VP running mate would have stopped Trump in his tracks.


The Dems. also had a very lame slogan.   'Stronger together.'     This reminds me of 'Man for Man the Stronger Team' which National used in 1972.



Agree



Also...
Fred99:

he's certainly quite the showman and seemed to be ad libbing much of the time. Incredibly, he managed to do it without alienating the hard religious right



FWiW the "hard" religious right didn't all like Trump's racist and isolationist standpoint, but absolutely detested Hillaries 40-week-abortion goal, and the fact that she'd get to appoint 3 Supreme Court justice, who will be serving when the epic Roe vs Wade appeal comes up again soon.

Links to the satanist church (whether or not true) were also suggested, which will always get strong opposition from any faith based voter (Muslim and Jew too).

Basically there wasn't a 'good' candidate for anyone this election, so I think most voted against the worse one (in their opinion) rather than FOR one they liked.

Edit (link) http://www.lifenews.com/2016/11/09/largest-evangelical-turnout-in-history-helps-donald-trump-defeat-pro-abortion-hillary-clinton/

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  Reply # 1668433 12-Nov-2016 10:24
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Technofreak:

 

I've seen several reports now saying the election result was the result of the "uneducated/blue collar workers" voting for Trump or Brexit, with the inference these people really don't know what they're doing and shouldn't have a vote.  

 

 

 

 

They shouldn't be allowed to vote. Next we should sterilize them so they can't breed.

 

You see what path that's taking you down?


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  Reply # 1668440 12-Nov-2016 10:39
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PhantomNVD:
Fred99:

 

he's certainly quite the showman and seemed to be ad libbing much of the time. Incredibly, he managed to do it without alienating the hard religious right

 



FWiW the "hard" religious right didn't all like Trump's racist and isolationist standpoint, but absolutely detested Hillaries 40-week-abortion goal, and the fact that she'd get to appoint 3 Supreme Court justice, who will be serving when the epic Roe vs Wade appeal comes up again soon.

Links to the satanist church (whether or not true) were also suggested, which will always get strong opposition from any faith based voter (Muslim and Jew too).

Basically there wasn't a 'good' candidate for anyone this election, so I think most voted against the worse one (in their opinion) rather than FOR one they liked.

 

 

 

You're incredibly deceived if you believe what you're saying here about HRC's "40-week-abortion goal" - which is nothing more than a blatant lie concocted by Trump.  Would you like me to explain in detail why pregnancy termination at longer term (than might be less traumatic to all) is sometimes a medical necessity, or is it better to let pig-ignorant delusional religious zealots dictate to women and medical experts?

 

It's also remarkable that you'd feel need to qualify the comment on alleged links to the satanist church as "whether or not true", as if there was doubt that it could be anything other than wild, malicious nonsense.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1668443 12-Nov-2016 10:42
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cynnicallemon:

 

Technofreak:

 

I've seen several reports now saying the election result was the result of the "uneducated/blue collar workers" voting for Trump or Brexit, with the inference these people really don't know what they're doing and shouldn't have a vote.  

 

 

 

 

They shouldn't be allowed to vote. Next we should sterilize them so they can't breed.

 

You see what path that's taking you down?

 

 

 

 

Oh please.  I know that path - it's called "building a strawman" - and you've just walked it.

 

Technofreak's comments have been criticised / argued without need for doing what you've just done.


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  Reply # 1668447 12-Nov-2016 10:49
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Fred99:

 

 

 

Technofreak's comments have been criticised / argued without need for doing what you've just done.

 

 

Oh I'm so sorry, I will ask for your permission to post next time...


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  Reply # 1668448 12-Nov-2016 10:50
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It has repeatedly been shown that prosperity and education go together. The better off people are, the better informed they tend to be. I'm not talking about academic intellectuals here, just solid fundamental education. Give blue collar workers or anyone else a decent standard of living, and they almost can't help expanding their horizons and especially giving their children improved opportunities. A problem with America and here and elsewhere is increasing income disparity, to the point where the best-paid receive ridiculous levels of compensation generated by the worst-paid, who can't escape poverty even when they have full-time employment. This is the source of the anger that elected Donald Trump.

 

Of course the answer is not preventing anyone from voting. It is improving the standard of living of everyone by ensuring fairer levels of pay for real work.

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1668451 12-Nov-2016 10:59
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Rikkitic:

 

It has repeatedly been shown that prosperity and education go together. The better off people are, the better informed they tend to be. 

 

 

I can pretty much agree with that in general but then it's a pity to see those "educated" college students in the US who are marching through the streets, chanting hate towards Trump plus, urinating and burning the nations flag. Perhaps they need to be educated about the democratic process and accepting the will of the majority. The same applies to the Anti-Brexiteers too.


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  Reply # 1668458 12-Nov-2016 11:15
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I get a sense from your different comments that you are cherry-picking to support your reactionary sentiments. Of course you have every right to believe what you do, but remarks like this are not particularly helpful. Most of those demonstrating are not violent and are exercising their free speech rights as enshrined in the Constitution. Why zoom in on the handful of agitators who always turn up at events like these and try to provoke confrontations? That is a distortion of what is actually happening and it doesn't serve any useful purpose.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1668459 12-Nov-2016 11:15
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cynnicallemon:

 

Rikkitic:

 

It has repeatedly been shown that prosperity and education go together. The better off people are, the better informed they tend to be. 

 

 

I can pretty much agree with that in general but then it's a pity to see those "educated" college students in the US who are marching through the streets, chanting hate towards Trump plus, urinating and burning the nations flag. Perhaps they need to be educated about the democratic process and accepting the will of the majority. The same applies to the Anti-Brexiteers too.

 

 

I'd be very careful before making assumptions about the protestors in general - based on limited media coverage of what some have done.  A few burned cars and tear gas canisters in a nation of 320 million isn't signalling civil war or a revolution.

 

There are also plenty of reports of despicable acts of hate being carried out by some jubilant Trump supporters against blacks, hispanics etc, including on US college campuses, and apparently by "educated" college students.


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