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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 1670968 14-Nov-2016 19:49
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 


Also history is rife with things that were wrong and are now right and vice versa.

Things change as do morals.

 

History is also rife with things that have always been wrong. Laws may change to suit the convenience of the moment, or society may be twisted to condone repulsive acts, but that doesn't make such things right. In ancient Egypt people ate their children and no doubt told each other it was justified in the circumstances. In Rwanda one group of people were slaughtered by another, sometimes while taking refuge in church. Torture, murder, unspeakable acts may be legitimised in one way or another by some transitory authority but people with a sense of ethics (which I firmly believe are absolute) know better.

 

 

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1670969 14-Nov-2016 19:50
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frankv:

 

 

 

Fred99:

 

Oh yeah that's right.  Bad enough for Billy Bush to be suspended and then resigning for standing alongside as he was saying it, but not so bad that the President Elect of the USA brushes it off as "locker room talk" - the kind of thing we all say, apparently. 

 

 

I don't know *why* Billy Bush was suspended and then resigned. Do you? It could be because he released the recording. But could it have been because he didn't allow his employer to make as much out of this money-spinner of a recording secret?  Or maybe he was bonking the editor's wife? Maybe he just wasn't bringing in the ratings, so he got a golden handshake? Maybe it was pressure from Trump himself, or some insider in the Republican Party, or Hillary Clinton, or some insider in the Democrat Party. Maybe he was just collateral damage in the media beatup of the whole thing.

 

The presence of groupies around rock groups is an example of exactly the same thing... sex of any kind is available on demand from strangers for famous people. I heard Robbie Williams say essentially the same thing, complete with anecdotal example, on a TV chat show a week or two ago. I've had "locker room" discussions on this subject before (although not in locker rooms)... I guess I'm just fortunate or clever or insignificant enough not to have been recorded saying it, and that no-one cares anyway. I don't understand the motivation of the groupies, but it's undeniable that they exist. I view that with incredulity, so maybe *I* heard an overtone of incredulity in Trump's voice as he was explaining essentially the same thing to the DJ.

 

And I'm somewhat incredulous that the whole thing blew up into such a media feeding frenzy of moral outrage, and that a whole group of people took *this* as a rallying cry against Trump.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Context matters

 

The presence of groupies around rock stars?  Trump was at the time a ~60YO businessman, endorsing or joking about sexual assault of women. Consent is context there. He wasn't some larrikin rock star.  If you've had "discussions of that nature", at least as an adult, then we live in different worlds.  He was exposed as a dirty_old_man.

 

And he was exposed as a dirty_old_man in context of a someone who had been trying to score moral points against the husband of his opponent, who did something unwise - but with consent - many years earlier.

 

I do buy into the sense of moral outrage.  I do buy in to the probability that women who came forward to make accusations that he'd behaved to them in a manner entirely consistent with the taped admission were serious issues. 

 

There was no point, clearly, to the "rallying cry" against Trump.  His voters have spoken, that they don't care, and I expect they'll continue to not care as he proceeds with his promises.

 

 


BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 1670970 14-Nov-2016 19:51
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Rikkitic:

 

Geektastic: Also history is rife with things that were wrong and are now right and vice versa.

Things change as do morals.

 

History is also rife with things that have always been wrong. Laws may change to suit the convenience of the moment, or society may be twisted to condone repulsive acts, but that doesn't make such things right. In ancient Egypt people ate their children and no doubt told each other it was justified in the circumstances. In Rwanda one group of people were slaughtered by another, sometimes while taking refuge in church. Torture, murder, unspeakable acts may be legitimised in one way or another by some transitory authority but people with a sense of ethics (which I firmly believe are absolute) know better.

 

 

Just look at after 9/11 war on terror and the torture by CIA operatives. Sorry, I mean "enhanced interrogation". Just because a President managed to get Congress to give them the use of black sites, torture and rendition doesn't mean it was morally right. It is still wrong.





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  Reply # 1670987 14-Nov-2016 20:46
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freitasm:

Rikkitic:


Geektastic: Also history is rife with things that were wrong and are now right and vice versa.

Things change as do morals.


History is also rife with things that have always been wrong. Laws may change to suit the convenience of the moment, or society may be twisted to condone repulsive acts, but that doesn't make such things right. In ancient Egypt people ate their children and no doubt told each other it was justified in the circumstances. In Rwanda one group of people were slaughtered by another, sometimes while taking refuge in church. Torture, murder, unspeakable acts may be legitimised in one way or another by some transitory authority but people with a sense of ethics (which I firmly believe are absolute) know better.



Just look at after 9/11 war on terror and the torture by CIA operatives. Sorry, I mean "enhanced interrogation". Just because a President managed to get Congress to give them the use of black sites, torture and rendition doesn't mean it was morally right. It is still wrong.



Not sure. If 12v batteries and jump leads will get info that saves thousands i'm good with that.





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  Reply # 1670990 14-Nov-2016 20:52
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Geektastic:
freitasm:

 

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

Geektastic: Also history is rife with things that were wrong and are now right and vice versa.

Things change as do morals.

 

 

 

History is also rife with things that have always been wrong. Laws may change to suit the convenience of the moment, or society may be twisted to condone repulsive acts, but that doesn't make such things right. In ancient Egypt people ate their children and no doubt told each other it was justified in the circumstances. In Rwanda one group of people were slaughtered by another, sometimes while taking refuge in church. Torture, murder, unspeakable acts may be legitimised in one way or another by some transitory authority but people with a sense of ethics (which I firmly believe are absolute) know better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just look at after 9/11 war on terror and the torture by CIA operatives. Sorry, I mean "enhanced interrogation". Just because a President managed to get Congress to give them the use of black sites, torture and rendition doesn't mean it was morally right. It is still wrong.

 



Not sure. If 12v batteries and jump leads will get info that saves thousands i'm good with that.

 

 

 

Oh boy, did you just open a can of worms.... lol


BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 1670997 14-Nov-2016 20:58
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Nah, I'm not going there. Some things are just always wrong. Inventing special cases to make them seem reasonable choices doesn't change that.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


JWR

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  Reply # 1671011 14-Nov-2016 21:26
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I have been wondering if it is time to start panicking about Trump as president and I think the answer is ... not yet.

 


I am still very unimpressed with idea of him as President and the next 4 years will probably be quite ugly.

 

But, Trump is already (as expected) back flipping on the border wall and deporting 13 million Mexicans.

 


At heart, I think he a pragmatist and it is the crazy ideologists that usually get us into trouble.

 


It is like comparing "The Art of the Deal " with "Mein Kampf"

 


I am more worried about the people that will be in his cabinet.

 

There are sure to some extreme political ideologists and religious fundamentalists. Vice President (elect) Pence already fits the religious fundamentalist category IMO.

 

 

 


Also, there also could be some good things for New Zealand.

 


It likely that the TPPA is dead and I am quite happy to see the end of that corporate welfare treaty.

 


I am for trade. But, the compromises in the TPPA seem far too dangerous for the future of New Zealand.

 


Besides, there might other opportunities opening up now.

 


Putin has already said he looks forward to resuming free trade negotiations with New Zealand.

 

 

 


Speaking of Putin, perhaps some of the tensions between Russia and NATO countries might ease .

 


I don't pretend Putin is any boy scout. But, what he has been doing is no worse than what the US has been doing for decades and we haven't criticized them very often.

 

I think it has been very foolish and dangerous of NATO to push themselves right up to Russia's doorstep.

 

Russia is a country that knows what it is like to be invaded.


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  Reply # 1671026 14-Nov-2016 21:51
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Geektastic:

Not sure. If 12v batteries and jump leads will get info that saves thousands i'm good with that.

 

 

 

Save only thousands?

 

Why you could make millions.  Charge an audience for tickets and turn it into a TV show.  Right up Trump's alley - a real win-win.


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  Reply # 1671029 14-Nov-2016 21:56
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Fred99:

 

frankv:

 

 

 

Fred99:

 

Oh yeah that's right.  Bad enough for Billy Bush to be suspended and then resigning for standing alongside as he was saying it, but not so bad that the President Elect of the USA brushes it off as "locker room talk" - the kind of thing we all say, apparently. 

 

 

I don't know *why* Billy Bush was suspended and then resigned. Do you? It could be because he released the recording. But could it have been because he didn't allow his employer to make as much out of this money-spinner of a recording secret?  Or maybe he was bonking the editor's wife? Maybe he just wasn't bringing in the ratings, so he got a golden handshake? Maybe it was pressure from Trump himself, or some insider in the Republican Party, or Hillary Clinton, or some insider in the Democrat Party. Maybe he was just collateral damage in the media beatup of the whole thing.

 

The presence of groupies around rock groups is an example of exactly the same thing... sex of any kind is available on demand from strangers for famous people. I heard Robbie Williams say essentially the same thing, complete with anecdotal example, on a TV chat show a week or two ago. I've had "locker room" discussions on this subject before (although not in locker rooms)... I guess I'm just fortunate or clever or insignificant enough not to have been recorded saying it, and that no-one cares anyway. I don't understand the motivation of the groupies, but it's undeniable that they exist. I view that with incredulity, so maybe *I* heard an overtone of incredulity in Trump's voice as he was explaining essentially the same thing to the DJ.

 

And I'm somewhat incredulous that the whole thing blew up into such a media feeding frenzy of moral outrage, and that a whole group of people took *this* as a rallying cry against Trump.

 

 

 Context matters

 

The presence of groupies around rock stars?  Trump was at the time a ~60YO businessman, endorsing or joking about sexual assault of women. Consent is context there. He wasn't some larrikin rock star.  If you've had "discussions of that nature", at least as an adult, then we live in different worlds.  He was exposed as a dirty_old_man.

 

And he was exposed as a dirty_old_man in context of a someone who had been trying to score moral points against the husband of his opponent, who did something unwise - but with consent - many years earlier.

 

I do buy into the sense of moral outrage.  I do buy in to the probability that women who came forward to make accusations that he'd behaved to them in a manner entirely consistent with the taped admission were serious issues. 

 

There was no point, clearly, to the "rallying cry" against Trump.  His voters have spoken, that they don't care, and I expect they'll continue to not care as he proceeds with his promises.

 

 

 

 

Again, what he actually said was "And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

 

They let you do it. i.e. they allow it, they consent. So it's *not* sexual assault. Whether he's 60 years old or 20 years old, they still apparently consent. And his actual words aren't endorsing or joking (or an "admission"). They are statements of fact... he's describing the world he lives in, as it is.

 

Yes, he's a dirty old man. I do buy into the moral outrage raised by women who *do* say they were assaulted. I look forward to his trial for raping a 13 year old girl.

 

And I'm happy to note, without surprise, that his campaign promises are vanishing into thin air as fast as Trump University did.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1671035 14-Nov-2016 22:18
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freitasm:

 

He obviously follows the Jack Bauer School of Interrogation Techniques.

 

 

 

 

Well to be fair, Jack saved the world from terrorists at least 7 times using those methods!

 

 


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  Reply # 1671036 14-Nov-2016 22:19
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Fred99:

 

Geektastic:

Not sure. If 12v batteries and jump leads will get info that saves thousands i'm good with that.

 

 

 

Save only thousands?

 

Why you could make millions.  Charge an audience for tickets and turn it into a TV show.  Right up Trump's alley - a real win-win.

 

 

 

 

He means thousands of people I think.


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  Reply # 1671041 14-Nov-2016 23:12
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frankv:

 

Fred99:

 

frankv:

 

 

 

Fred99:

 

Oh yeah that's right.  Bad enough for Billy Bush to be suspended and then resigning for standing alongside as he was saying it, but not so bad that the President Elect of the USA brushes it off as "locker room talk" - the kind of thing we all say, apparently. 

 

 

I don't know *why* Billy Bush was suspended and then resigned. Do you? It could be because he released the recording. But could it have been because he didn't allow his employer to make as much out of this money-spinner of a recording secret?  Or maybe he was bonking the editor's wife? Maybe he just wasn't bringing in the ratings, so he got a golden handshake? Maybe it was pressure from Trump himself, or some insider in the Republican Party, or Hillary Clinton, or some insider in the Democrat Party. Maybe he was just collateral damage in the media beatup of the whole thing.

 

The presence of groupies around rock groups is an example of exactly the same thing... sex of any kind is available on demand from strangers for famous people. I heard Robbie Williams say essentially the same thing, complete with anecdotal example, on a TV chat show a week or two ago. I've had "locker room" discussions on this subject before (although not in locker rooms)... I guess I'm just fortunate or clever or insignificant enough not to have been recorded saying it, and that no-one cares anyway. I don't understand the motivation of the groupies, but it's undeniable that they exist. I view that with incredulity, so maybe *I* heard an overtone of incredulity in Trump's voice as he was explaining essentially the same thing to the DJ.

 

And I'm somewhat incredulous that the whole thing blew up into such a media feeding frenzy of moral outrage, and that a whole group of people took *this* as a rallying cry against Trump.

 

 

 Context matters

 

The presence of groupies around rock stars?  Trump was at the time a ~60YO businessman, endorsing or joking about sexual assault of women. Consent is context there. He wasn't some larrikin rock star.  If you've had "discussions of that nature", at least as an adult, then we live in different worlds.  He was exposed as a dirty_old_man.

 

And he was exposed as a dirty_old_man in context of a someone who had been trying to score moral points against the husband of his opponent, who did something unwise - but with consent - many years earlier.

 

I do buy into the sense of moral outrage.  I do buy in to the probability that women who came forward to make accusations that he'd behaved to them in a manner entirely consistent with the taped admission were serious issues. 

 

There was no point, clearly, to the "rallying cry" against Trump.  His voters have spoken, that they don't care, and I expect they'll continue to not care as he proceeds with his promises.

 

 

 

 

Again, what he actually said was "And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

 

They let you do it. i.e. they allow it, they consent. So it's *not* sexual assault. Whether he's 60 years old or 20 years old, they still apparently consent. And his actual words aren't endorsing or joking (or an "admission"). They are statements of fact... he's describing the world he lives in, as it is.

 

Yes, he's a dirty old man. I do buy into the moral outrage raised by women who *do* say they were assaulted. I look forward to his trial for raping a 13 year old girl.

 

And I'm happy to note, without surprise, that his campaign promises are vanishing into thin air as fast as Trump University did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Fact Checking:

 

Donald Trump Is Accused Of Raping A 13-Year-Old. Why Haven’t The Media Covered It?

 

On Friday evening, Bloom announced that her client had instructed her to dismiss the lawsuit.

 

 

 

 

  Lisa Bloom   @LisaBloom

 

Jane Doe instructed us to dismiss her lawsuit against Trump and Epstein today. Tough week for her. We wish her well.

 

1:30 PM - 5 Nov 2016 This story has been updated to note the cancellation of the press conference and the dismissal of the suit.

 

Editor’s note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar,rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.

 

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rape-case_us_581a31a5e4b0c43e6c1d9834

 

Source Huffington Post, about as rabidly anti Trump as the US Media can get...  

 

 

 

The whole article makes 'interesting' reading as to why most major media organisations didn't cover it (more like wouldn't cover it for any amount of publicity it could bring) 

 

 

 


JWR

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  Reply # 1671045 15-Nov-2016 00:07
quote this post

MaxLV:

 

frankv:

 

Fred99:

 

frankv:

 

 

 

Fred99:

 

Oh yeah that's right.  Bad enough for Billy Bush to be suspended and then resigning for standing alongside as he was saying it, but not so bad that the President Elect of the USA brushes it off as "locker room talk" - the kind of thing we all say, apparently. 

 

 

I don't know *why* Billy Bush was suspended and then resigned. Do you? It could be because he released the recording. But could it have been because he didn't allow his employer to make as much out of this money-spinner of a recording secret?  Or maybe he was bonking the editor's wife? Maybe he just wasn't bringing in the ratings, so he got a golden handshake? Maybe it was pressure from Trump himself, or some insider in the Republican Party, or Hillary Clinton, or some insider in the Democrat Party. Maybe he was just collateral damage in the media beatup of the whole thing.

 

The presence of groupies around rock groups is an example of exactly the same thing... sex of any kind is available on demand from strangers for famous people. I heard Robbie Williams say essentially the same thing, complete with anecdotal example, on a TV chat show a week or two ago. I've had "locker room" discussions on this subject before (although not in locker rooms)... I guess I'm just fortunate or clever or insignificant enough not to have been recorded saying it, and that no-one cares anyway. I don't understand the motivation of the groupies, but it's undeniable that they exist. I view that with incredulity, so maybe *I* heard an overtone of incredulity in Trump's voice as he was explaining essentially the same thing to the DJ.

 

And I'm somewhat incredulous that the whole thing blew up into such a media feeding frenzy of moral outrage, and that a whole group of people took *this* as a rallying cry against Trump.

 

 

 Context matters

 

The presence of groupies around rock stars?  Trump was at the time a ~60YO businessman, endorsing or joking about sexual assault of women. Consent is context there. He wasn't some larrikin rock star.  If you've had "discussions of that nature", at least as an adult, then we live in different worlds.  He was exposed as a dirty_old_man.

 

And he was exposed as a dirty_old_man in context of a someone who had been trying to score moral points against the husband of his opponent, who did something unwise - but with consent - many years earlier.

 

I do buy into the sense of moral outrage.  I do buy in to the probability that women who came forward to make accusations that he'd behaved to them in a manner entirely consistent with the taped admission were serious issues. 

 

There was no point, clearly, to the "rallying cry" against Trump.  His voters have spoken, that they don't care, and I expect they'll continue to not care as he proceeds with his promises.

 

 

 

 

Again, what he actually said was "And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

 

They let you do it. i.e. they allow it, they consent. So it's *not* sexual assault. Whether he's 60 years old or 20 years old, they still apparently consent. And his actual words aren't endorsing or joking (or an "admission"). They are statements of fact... he's describing the world he lives in, as it is.

 

Yes, he's a dirty old man. I do buy into the moral outrage raised by women who *do* say they were assaulted. I look forward to his trial for raping a 13 year old girl.

 

And I'm happy to note, without surprise, that his campaign promises are vanishing into thin air as fast as Trump University did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Fact Checking:

 

Donald Trump Is Accused Of Raping A 13-Year-Old. Why Haven’t The Media Covered It?

 

On Friday evening, Bloom announced that her client had instructed her to dismiss the lawsuit.

 

 

 

 

  Lisa Bloom   @LisaBloom

 

Jane Doe instructed us to dismiss her lawsuit against Trump and Epstein today. Tough week for her. We wish her well.

 

1:30 PM - 5 Nov 2016 This story has been updated to note the cancellation of the press conference and the dismissal of the suit.

 

Editor’s note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar,rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.

 

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rape-case_us_581a31a5e4b0c43e6c1d9834

 

Source Huffington Post, about as rabidly anti Trump as the US Media can get...  

 

 

 

The whole article makes 'interesting' reading as to why most major media organisations didn't cover it (more like wouldn't cover it for any amount of publicity it could bring) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The fact check is that we aren't qualified to judge this and neither is Twitter.

 

This is a serious allegation that needs evidence.

 

If there is evidence, then the only recourse is to take it to Court.

 

The Media would cover that.


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