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  Reply # 1673218 17-Nov-2016 22:58
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Fred99:

JayADee: I thought it explained Tamaki's followers pretty well too.


If Tamaki and his followers are all going to heaven, and Trump and his followers are all going to hell, is there a third option?



Left behind? 😆

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind_(2014_film)

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  Reply # 1673269 18-Nov-2016 03:55
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Rikkitic:

 

Anyone who thinks Trump is just misunderstood should see the CNN interview with Megyn Kelly.

 

 

 

 

On the Clinton News Network is it? That's hardly an unbiased source... 

 

 


 
 
 
 


gzt

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  Reply # 1673271 18-Nov-2016 05:20
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MaxLV:

Rikkitic:


Anyone who thinks Trump is just misunderstood should see the CNN interview with Megyn Kelly.


 



On the Clinton News Network is it? That's hardly an unbiased source... 


 


I haven't seen the interview. I think it is unlikely that CNN would fake an interview with Megyn Kelly if that is what you are suggesting.

I googled it. It's interesting because it covers the period leading up to Trump's 'blood coming out of her' comments after the first Republican candidates debate. It appears there was a lot of bullying directly from the Trump team aimed at Kelly leading up to that debate.

Kelly still works for Fox News I believe. Do you have a problem with Megyn Kelly or maybe think Cooper should not have asked about those sections of her autobiography?

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  Reply # 1673288 18-Nov-2016 07:09
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Trump is meeting Japan PM today. Here is what I think.

 

It will be a good meeting from both sides, as off course its international news, transparency, it has to be as these nations are friends. Trump will do what he did in the election, spout words with no substance. Japan PM will act engaged, but in his mind, it will be, "this is a leader of the US???" Trump will be given topics to discuss, what to say, what not to say. Admittedly, this is what happens in real life, they have many advisors, but in this case, its really hand holding. Not necessarily a bad thing, as the leader has to lead, with guidance from his advisors and the party, its more about engagement of the people, and the world. The interesting time will be re Russia and its involvement with Syria, and other edge of the seat topics. 


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  Reply # 1673297 18-Nov-2016 07:26
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MikeB4:

 

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

What people keep pointing out about Hitler is that he stole the democratic process. It has also happened elsewhere. who is to say it couldn't be happening in this case?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Circumstances are different, the USA is not experiencing hyper -inflation, high unemployment, loss of territory, essentially bankrupt owing massive war reparations. The circumstances in 1930's Germany were way different

 

to the USA of now.  

 

 

You are absolutely correct, yet the American people seem to feel just as agreived as the Germans of the 30's.

 

I am not sure why America needs to be made Great again, from outside of the fish bowl it looks pretty darn good, but that is my impression. Donald has managed to get enough people believe that America is a third world country through this election to be worried.


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  Reply # 1673312 18-Nov-2016 07:45
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PhantomNVD:

 

JayADee: I thought this was a good article explaining his appeal- What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class
Joan C. Williams
Link: https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

 

 

 

Some awesome quotes in there explain Brexit sentiments too:

 

 

 

Understand Working-Class Resentment of the Poor

 

Remember when President Obama sold Obamacare by pointing out that it delivered health care to 20 million people? Just another program that taxed the middle class to help the poor, said the WWC, and in some cases that’s proved true: The poor got health insurance while some Americans just a notch richer saw their premiums rise.

 

Progressives have lavished attention on the poor for over a century. That (combined with other factors) led to social programs targeting them. Means-tested programs that help the poor but exclude the middle may keep costs and tax rates lower, but they are a recipe for class conflict.

 

Example: 28.3% of poor families receive child-care subsidies, which are largely nonexistent for the middle class. So my sister-in-law worked full-time for Head Start, providing free child care for poor women while earning so little that she almost couldn’t pay for her own. She resented this, especially the fact that some of the kids’ moms did not work. One arrived late one day to pick up her child, carrying shopping bags from Macy’s. My sister-in-law was livid.

 

Both parties have supported free-trade deals because of the net positive GDP gains, overlooking the blue-collar workers who lost work as jobs left for Mexico or Vietnam. These are precisely the voters in the crucial swing states of Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania that Democrats have so long ignored. Excuse me. Who’s stupid?

 

Class conflict now closely tracks the urban-rural divide

 

(Same as Brexit Urban/Rural split)

 

 

 

Avoid the Temptation to Write Off Blue-Collar Resentment as Racism

 

Economic resentment has fueled racial anxiety that, in some Trump supporters (and Trump himself), bleeds into open racism. But to write off WWC anger as nothing more than racism is intellectual comfort food, and it is dangerous.

 

*edit - messed up the quote/link BBCode :(

 

 

So the middle class are left to prop up the rich and the poor.

 

No wonder I feel so aggrieved!


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  Reply # 1673318 18-Nov-2016 07:50
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BTW I am white middle class, I should be all over Trump like white on rice, however I understand where this leads as we have history to guide us, this is why I am worried.

 

I also understand there is no free lunch, building takes resources, not money. Money can be made infinitely the resources and building materials not so much.


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  Reply # 1673326 18-Nov-2016 08:01
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dickytim:

BTW I am white middle class, I should be all over Trump like white on rice, however I understand where this leads as we have history to guide us, this is why I am worried.


I also understand there is no free lunch, building takes resources, not money. Money can be made infinitely the resources and building materials not so much.



You are probably upper middle enough to still feel insulated and comfortable. Thing is, the negative changes have been happening from the bottom up, so the poorest feel it first, the middle classes have been eroding for some time...

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  Reply # 1673331 18-Nov-2016 08:12
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MaxLV:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Anyone who thinks Trump is just misunderstood should see the CNN interview with Megyn Kelly.

 

 

On the Clinton News Network is it? That's hardly an unbiased source... 

 

 

Your feeble attempt at sarcasm failed because Megyn Kelly works for Fox, surprisingly.





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  Reply # 1673339 18-Nov-2016 08:27
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Also, I think the part about resenting the management level (the next level up that people are in actual contact with) and the poor but not the 'rich' can't be overlooked. University (called college in the US) educated people voted republican. Because I think the college educated understand it isn't management level that is the problem but the whole neo-liberal, trickle down, invisible hand system that keeps making the rich richer. For the working class to blame the rich is to break faith with the basic American Dream which is drummed into US citizens. The idea that anyone can arrive in America poor and become rich through hard work. Better to demonise the poor, the immigrants, the people who don't look the same than break with that basic tenet.

So that being the case I can understand why people could get behind Trump, Tamaki and even Brexit. I remember reading Tamaki's followers see his wealth as indicating the success of his methods and that they can have it too if they follow and believe him and tithe to him. (Think voters see Trump that way?)

I think a lot of people, including me didn't take Trump seriously enough. Neither choice was great but I thought people would take the lesser of two evils. Instead, Americans voted for change and an idealised America (Make America Great Again) where there was once upon a time a securer middle class with manufacturing jobs before everything was globalised and outsourced. I can understand it from that point of view.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

Edit: link

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  Reply # 1673405 18-Nov-2016 10:08
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JayADee: Also, I think the part about resenting the management level (the next level up that people are in actual contact with) and the poor but not the 'rich' can't be overlooked. University (called college in the US) educated people voted republican. Because I think the college educated understand it isn't management level that is the problem but the whole neo-liberal, trickle down, invisible hand system that keeps making the rich richer. For the working class to blame the rich is to break faith with the basic American Dream which is drummed into US citizens. The idea that anyone can arrive in America poor and become rich through hard work. Better to demonise the poor, the immigrants, the people who don't look the same than break with that basic tenet.

So that being the case I can understand why people could get behind Trump, Tamaki and even Brexit. I remember reading Tamaki's followers see his wealth as indicating the success of his methods and that they can have it too if they follow and believe him and tithe to him. (Think voters see Trump that way?)

I think a lot of people, including me didn't take Trump seriously enough. Neither choice was great but I thought people would take the lesser of two evils. Instead, Americans voted for change and an idealised America (Make America Great Again) where there was once upon a time a securer middle class with manufacturing jobs before everything was globalised and outsourced. I can understand it from that point of view.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

Edit: link

 

I have an issue with your statement "University (called college in the US) educated people voted republican.". This sounds to me like you're saying that most of them voted Republican. Maybe you meant that some of them did?

 

My understanding is that what Trump did different was to motivate the non-college educated whites to vote. That's borne out somewhat by the site you quoted, and http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2016/exit-polls

 

 

 

52% of college grads went Clinton, 43% went Trump. Higher degrees favoured Clinton 58% to 37%. No college or no completed degree went to Trump by 52% vs 44%

 

Other stats on the Fox page are also very interesting and confirm what you're saying: The "honest & trustworthy" question found that almost no-one thought both were trustworthy, 34% trusted only Clinton, 31% trusted only Trump, and 29% trusted neither. But 45% of the "neithers" voted for Trump anyway (vs 40% for Clinton).

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1673522 18-Nov-2016 11:57
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I watched something on Al Jazeera the other night where they approximated Trump got many billions of dollars of free publicity from the privately owned US televsion networks. It was the media that got Trump into office...not necessarily due to all the pushing of Trump by Foxnews but also due to the fact that his name was on the news 7 times as much as Clinton.


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  Reply # 1673541 18-Nov-2016 12:23
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Pumpedd:

 

I watched something on Al Jazeera the other night where they approximated Trump got many billions of dollars of free publicity from the privately owned US televsion networks. It was the media that got Trump into office...not necessarily due to all the pushing of Trump by Foxnews but also due to the fact that his name was on the news 7 times as much as Clinton.

 

 

Two billion USD was the estimate that I last heard (before he was elected).

 

Donald Trump has always been very, very good at getting something for nothing, using somebody else's money. That's why he is filthy rich.  

 

If he survives his term in office, he will come out even richer.  undecided





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Reply # 1673546 18-Nov-2016 12:29
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gzt:
MaxLV:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Anyone who thinks Trump is just misunderstood should see the CNN interview with Megyn Kelly.

 

 

On the Clinton News Network is it? That's hardly an unbiased source... 

 

 

I haven't seen the interview. I think it is unlikely that CNN would fake an interview with Megyn Kelly if that is what you are suggesting.

I googled it. It's interesting because it covers the period leading up to Trump's 'blood coming out of her' comments after the first Republican candidates debate. It appears there was a lot of bullying directly from the Trump team aimed at Kelly leading up to that debate.

Kelly still works for Fox News I believe. Do you have a problem with Megyn Kelly or maybe think Cooper should not have asked about those sections of her autobiography?

 

Who said anything about CNN faking the interview? I've watched it. It's not fake. It's just two 'so called unbiased' news/media celebrities stroking each others egos....

 

CNN isn't called the Clinton News Network for nothing. Most of the time their so called news reporting seems to be nothing more than 'press releases' from Clinton and the Democrats.

 

Likewise Fox News is little better than a Republican party channel.

 

Megyn Kelly, being a Fox News employee, has to follow her employers 'directives' and 'demonise' Trump. It's what she gets paid to do after all.

 

There's only two reasons why I'm glad he won. 

 

1. He killed the TPPA. That can only benefit New Zealand.

 

2. He's 'getting rid of the 'Washington Establishment'.  Just look at the howls of outrage over his staff appointments because they're not Washington career 'staffers'. And the outrage of the news media at his election clearly shows the media bias in the USA. The Press Pool screaming blue murder because they weren't told about and taken to dinner with his family is classic!

 

BTW please remember this is all IMHO. 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1673549 18-Nov-2016 12:33
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Interesting that you state that Fox News directs its employees to demonize Trump.....when all I saw on Fox was the exact opposite.

 

You may well be in a position soon enough to see what New Zealand will be like when free trade doesnt exist any more.


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