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  Reply # 1677389 25-Nov-2016 12:42
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networkn:

 

I don't think the election was rigged, he STILL lost the popular votes. A lot of the states he won on Electoral (Which is all that matters) he won very comfortably. 

 

 

 

 

Probably right. While there are clear statistical anomalies when looking at electronic vs. paper polling places in the same state, the differences may well be explained by demographics rather than manipulation.

 

In any case, particularly given the 'rigged' rhetoric from the Trump campaign, the now likley recounts should hopefully restore some confidence in the system (or in fact show there has been manipulation).

 

A good read here of some of the tampering possibilities for anyone interested: https://medium.com/@jhalderm/want-to-know-if-the-election-was-hacked-look-at-the-ballots-c61a6113b0ba#.qyuxzvq09





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  Reply # 1677391 25-Nov-2016 12:47
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If Donald Trump is serious about 'fixing the system', he should push for federally enforceable standards around vote registration and counting. In reality, I think he's probably learned a lot about how he can game the system, particularly the electoral college which in 2012 he deplored, and since the 2016 election has called 'genius'.

 

Can you imagine how much foaming at the mouth would be happening with Trump and his supporters if the reverse of the result were true and he won the popular vote but lost the electoral college? Doubt he'd be calling it 'genius' then.





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  Reply # 1677421 25-Nov-2016 13:46
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gzt:
Pumpedd:

 

DarthKermit:

 

For a first-world country, their voting and electoral processes are incredibly Mickey Mouse.

 

 

and ours arent??

 


USA does not even have a national standard for elections.

 

This is a fundamental misunderstanding about how the system works there. Remember that it is the United States of America. The States are the basis of political power and decision-making, and have the power to make laws themselves, to suit themselves. Any "national standards" would be seen as an imposition on State rights. That's really quite sensible because many things affect different States differently. A big issue in Hawaii, requiring laws to sort out, may not be important at all in Maine. A one-rule-fits-all would be unwieldy and/or restrictive. Hence, for example, there are varying speed limits in various States. The Federal Govt (President, Senate, and House of Representatives) is as much about making sure the States play nicely together and presenting a united face for the States as governing the populace.

 

 


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  Reply # 1677460 25-Nov-2016 14:37
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No, I understand. It's still a fact.

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  Reply # 1677742 26-Nov-2016 03:39
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ajobbins:

 

If Donald Trump is serious about 'fixing the system', he should push for federally enforceable standards around vote registration and counting. In reality, I think he's probably learned a lot about how he can game the system, particularly the electoral college which in 2012 he deplored, and since the 2016 election has called 'genius'.

 

Can you imagine how much foaming at the mouth would be happening with Trump and his supporters if the reverse of the result were true and he won the popular vote but lost the electoral college? Doubt he'd be calling it 'genius' then.

 

 

 

 

You mean like all the 'foaming at the mouth', violence, and rioting of democrat and Clinton and various 'ism' supporters that's been happening since 9/11/2016?

 

He won.  EOS.  

 

BTW the 'popular' vote is irrelevant. It's NOT how the USA elects their presidents. (just stating the obvious you understand...)


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  Reply # 1677743 26-Nov-2016 03:45
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ajobbins:

 

networkn:

 

I don't think the election was rigged, he STILL lost the popular votes. A lot of the states he won on Electoral (Which is all that matters) he won very comfortably. 

 

 

 

 

Probably right. While there are clear statistical anomalies when looking at electronic vs. paper polling places in the same state, the differences may well be explained by demographics rather than manipulation.

 

In any case, particularly given the 'rigged' rhetoric from the Trump campaign, the now likley recounts should hopefully restore some confidence in the system (or in fact show there has been manipulation).

 

A good read here of some of the tampering possibilities for anyone interested: https://medium.com/@jhalderm/want-to-know-if-the-election-was-hacked-look-at-the-ballots-c61a6113b0ba#.qyuxzvq09

 

 

What about all the 'statistical anomalies' of the pre-election polls then? And the huge 'rigged' rhetoric of the news media predicting a Clinton win?

 

 


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  Reply # 1677752 26-Nov-2016 08:23
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MaxLV:

ajobbins:


If Donald Trump is serious about 'fixing the system', he should push for federally enforceable standards around vote registration and counting. In reality, I think he's probably learned a lot about how he can game the system, particularly the electoral college which in 2012 he deplored, and since the 2016 election has called 'genius'.


Can you imagine how much foaming at the mouth would be happening with Trump and his supporters if the reverse of the result were true and he won the popular vote but lost the electoral college? Doubt he'd be calling it 'genius' then.



 


You mean like all the 'foaming at the mouth', violence, and rioting of democrat and Clinton and various 'ism' supporters that's been happening since 9/11/2016?


He won.  EOS.  


BTW the 'popular' vote is irrelevant. It's NOT how the USA elects their presidents. (just stating the obvious you understand...)


I saw some on tv. I doubt they were very Clinton supporters. It looked more like anti-trump protesting.

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  Reply # 1677932 26-Nov-2016 14:39
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MaxLV: And the huge 'rigged' rhetoric of the news media predicting a Clinton win?

 

I have seen literally zero commentary from any media calling the system rigged because Trump won. It was the Trump campaign calling the system rigged all long, and Fox media duly fell in line. Of course, now that he won, the 'rigged' system is now 'genius'. 





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  Reply # 1677934 26-Nov-2016 14:52
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MaxLV:

 

You mean like all the 'foaming at the mouth', violence, and rioting of democrat and Clinton and various 'ism' supporters that's been happening since 9/11/2016?

 

He won.  EOS. 

 

There have been elements of this from both sides of politics during various parts of the campaign, and while it's not OK for any of them, in all cases this kind of behavior represents a tiny proportion of either side. Also worth noting that since the election there has been a big increase in the reports of racism and anti-semitism including violence from Trump supporters. 

 

Even days before the election he had said he would only accept the result if he won. I have no doubt that if he lost, the violence he would incite following would absolutely dwarf anything we've seen.

 

BTW the 'popular' vote is irrelevant. It's NOT how the USA elects their presidents. (just stating the obvious you understand...)

 

Quite correct - but Trump didn't like the idea of that when he thought his guy was going to lose the presidency yet win the populate vote back in '12. Obama went on to win a majority in the popular vote anyway, but Trump genuinely suggested that people "march of Washington and stop this travesty" and that "we should have a revolution" at the time. This, Like most things he says and does, shows he's a demonstrably massive hypocrite. 





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  Reply # 1677985 26-Nov-2016 16:17
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ajobbins:

 

MaxLV:

 

You mean like all the 'foaming at the mouth', violence, and rioting of democrat and Clinton and various 'ism' supporters that's been happening since 9/11/2016?

 

He won.  EOS. 

 

There have been elements of this from both sides of politics during various parts of the campaign, and while it's not OK for any of them, in all cases this kind of behavior represents a tiny proportion of either side. Also worth noting that since the election there has been a big increase in the reports of racism and anti-semitism including violence from Trump supporters. 

 

Even days before the election he had said he would only accept the result if he won. I have no doubt that if he lost, the violence he would incite following would absolutely dwarf anything we've seen.

 

BTW the 'popular' vote is irrelevant. It's NOT how the USA elects their presidents. (just stating the obvious you understand...)

 

Quite correct - but Trump didn't like the idea of that when he thought his guy was going to lose the presidency yet win the populate vote back in '12. Obama went on to win a majority in the popular vote anyway, but Trump genuinely suggested that people "march of Washington and stop this travesty" and that "we should have a revolution" at the time. This, Like most things he says and does, shows he's a demonstrably massive hypocrite. 

 

 

There's also been a big increase  reports of racism and violence from those that supported Clinton. It's from both sides. You just have to see, read, and hear what they're saying about the millions of americans who voted for Trump, who weren't all white middle class, old people living in the backwoods of the crucial swing states. 

 

The 'popular vote' is just as irrelevant to Trump as it is to Clinton, in 2012 and 2016. And IMHO it's irrelevant to any/every discussion/debate about the election outcome even here in 'Geek zone.

 

As to him being a hypocrite, he's no worse than Clinton on that score. All politicians are hypocrites. It might even be said it's a requirement to be a successful, election winning politician. Just look at New Zealand politics for evidence of that, particularly our current government. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1677987 26-Nov-2016 16:24
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MaxLV:

 

There's also been a big increase  reports of racism and violence from those that supported Clinton. It's from both sides. You just have to see, read, and hear what they're saying about the millions of americans who voted for Trump, who weren't all white middle class, old people living in the backwoods of the crucial swing states. 

 

 

This is a good article about "labelling" people: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/25/left-wails-happily-indulges-post-truth-politics/

 

It's applicable both to Trump and Brexit - all too easy to make assumptions about people because of one issue.  But such generalisations are rarely accurate


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  Reply # 1677989 26-Nov-2016 16:25
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ajobbins:

 

MaxLV: And the huge 'rigged' rhetoric of the news media predicting a Clinton win?

 

I have seen literally zero commentary from any media calling the system rigged because Trump won. It was the Trump campaign calling the system rigged all long, and Fox media duly fell in line. Of course, now that he won, the 'rigged' system is now 'genius'. 

 

 

Read Friday's edition of Stuff/The Dominion Post. It has several page filler articles from so called 'reporters/comentators' of leading US newspapers like the Washington Post and New York Times. Of course you might believe they actually real news and not made up opinions of the writers and/or editors...

 

Watch CNN, and dare I say it even the BBC on occasion... 


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  Reply # 1677997 26-Nov-2016 16:41
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MaxLV: As to him being a hypocrite, he's no worse than Clinton on that score. All politicians are hypocrites. It might even be said it's a requirement to be a successful, election winning politician. Just look at New Zealand politics for evidence of that, particularly our current government. 

 

While I agree that there is a level of hypocrisy amount most, if not all politicians, I do not agree with the statement that's 'no worse than Clinton'. He is far, far worse than Clinton on that score. Before, during and after the election he has been saying many, many things that are starkly at odds with what he has been saying sometimes only days or hours earlier. It's almost impossible to tell what his true position is on most things, because he has had so many conflicting positions on those things and is likley to have a different position next time he's asked. 





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  Reply # 1678043 26-Nov-2016 18:31
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Washington Post published an opinion piece by Laurence Lessig. He's arguing the electoral college should uphold the popular vote:

"[snip] the result violated what has become one of the most important principles governing our democracy — one person, one vote. In both cases, the votes of some weighed much more heavily than the votes of others. Today, the vote of a citizen in Wyoming is four times as powerful as the vote of a citizen in Michigan. The vote of a citizen in Vermont is three times as powerful as a vote in Missouri. This denies Americans the fundamental value of a representative democracy — equal citizenship. Yet nothing in our Constitution compels this result."

It's a good argument for reform. Not much else.

I'd guess he's just being provocative for the sake of getting his electoral reform views heard.

It's hard to see any reason Republican electors would have for giving it away in the college. Even if Trump was found in some henious crime they would nominate Pence or someone else before Clinton.

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  Reply # 1678044 26-Nov-2016 18:36
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I don't have a problem with him. His election rhetoric was ugly. He won. Now he is nice. He backtracks on everything. He dilutes everything. So, his election rubbish is not now rubbish. IMHO he is new and fresh, and his stupid election promises are being brought back to earth by the people that will run the show, the Republicans. That is the reality. When he meets with foreign leaders they will be thinking WTF, but while he is President he won't be running the show. The GOP will be. The internet is full of Trump pre election and post election, its laughable, but sadly, enjoyable to read. We have seen him disenfranchise many demographics, but the ultimate disenfranchisement will be his voters.

 

But it will be a fun ride to watch. Puppet On A String


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