Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | ... | 730
19488 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5834

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1686658 12-Dec-2016 19:55
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

The point being, according to what I read, that it takes 200 warheads to wipe out the world even if not aimed at the world, and India and Pakistan have that many between them. Even if they only shot at each other they could still end all life (in any meaningful sense) on earth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone available to fire the missiles would long be dead well before it was near 200 rest assured, even in a bunker.


1628 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 857


  Reply # 1686669 12-Dec-2016 20:10
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

I value survival higher than whatever system I happen to live under. Totalitarianism isn't necessarily the end of the world. Nuclear holocaust is. Gambling with the entire planet is stupid beyond belief in my opinion. The end of the cold war didn't prove anything, except that we had a lucky escape. Claiming that MAD prevented war is like claiming that scratching your arse prevents tigers. The fact that there are no tigers in the vicinity doesn't prove a thing.

 

So what's your alternative theory for why it ended?  Pixie dust?  A sudden attack of guilty conscience on the USSR's part?  Why else didn't the USSR use their vast conventional army and nuclear armoury to achieve their goals?

 

Rikkitic:

 

So you are telling me that you would rather live in an irradiated post-apocalyptic landscape than in a Stalinist paradise? Oh wait, there are other options. My other option is to swallow a hefty dose of sanity and stop dreaming that being able to threaten the entire planet with total annihilation many times over is an answer to anything at all. What a mind-numbingly dumb path to peace that is.

 

 

 

No, I'm not telling you that at all.  I'm saying that it was - as is proven by history - possible to face down the Soviet threat during the cold war by maintaining a credible conventional and nuclear deterrent.  The USSR had to give up on the arms race because the inefficient communist economy meant they could either feed their people (poorly, and only most of them), or compete with NATO, but not both.  Similarly, maintaining a deterrent now prevents nutters like Kim Jong-un trying anything stupid.  He hasn't stopped at the border with South Korea because he's a nice guy, or because he's afraid that lots of his troops will die


 
 
 
 


19488 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5834

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1686673 12-Dec-2016 20:18
Send private message quote this post

I am honestly embarrassed by the tone of some of these posts toward other people. Honestly, you'd give Trump a run for his money. 

 

Can I recommend that before hitting the post button you take a few moments and re-read what you are proposing to post?


1628 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 857


  Reply # 1686678 12-Dec-2016 20:28
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

I am honestly embarrassed by the tone of some of these posts toward other people. Honestly, you'd give Trump a run for his money. 

 

Can I recommend that before hitting the post button you take a few moments and re-read what you are proposing to post?

 

 

If you're referring to my post then be assured that I proof-read it very carefully before posting and I stand by what I said.  Just because I have a different view to yours and argue my case strongly, that doesn't make me wrong.

 

As someone who joined the armed forces during the height of the cold war and served as part of the NATO deterrent for 20+ years, I consider I have a reasonable level of knowledge of the subject.


13822 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6573

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1686693 12-Dec-2016 20:37
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

mutual stupidity deterred mutual destruction which would have been mutually stupid.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


15325 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2968

Trusted

  Reply # 1686699 12-Dec-2016 20:41
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

Fred99:

 

Trump has been quite inconsistent on nuclear.

 

He's on record saying that he'd be "the last" to use them, that he's against proliferation.  But OTOH he's argued that the US arsenal is in "very terrible shape" and that impacts on the US ability to "protect" South Korea and Japan who in his opinion at the time should/could be nuclear armed.  Taking N Korea out of that equation, I assume that his guess of threat is from China who he seems to have a bit of a downer on, but China have an official "no first use" policy.  Considering the size of their nuclear industry which would give them the ability to easily produce a massive arsenal complete with state of the art delivery systems, their weapons stockpile is very small, a tiny fraction of US or Russian arsenals. 

 

I don't think Trump is at all keen on nuclear weapons and isn't a "direct" threat. He's nuts in many ways IMO, but not in that one. Clinton even seemed to target him earlier in the campaign questioning whether he'd have the will to launch a strike if needed 'cause "she would".  China also isn't a nuclear threat IMO. Pakistan/India are a risk only to each other.  N Korea is a PITA that someone's going to have to deal with.

 

It's really only the possibility of an indirect effect - something inadvertently initiated by Trump - which bothers me. 

 

 

 

 

I'd agree with all these points. 

 

You know, the initiator of the first Nuclear launch has as much to lose as gain. Retaliation is nearly *certain* and a lot of lives would be lost on both sides, mostly innocents. I don't think any current leader is going to be dreaming of the day they thought they might get to "launch" because unlike decades ago, there are a lot of missiles pointing right back at you.

 

 

 

 

Before reading following posts. Back in the day the issue was between the USSR and the US.  They both had the capability. But they arent stupid. I think it was Reagan that met Gorbachev. Feel free to correct. They talked. Then the girls talked. He is a good man Nancy said. It worked out. At that level, stupid people don't exist. There was a Cold War, Cuba crisis. But it never happened. Compare that to Idi Amin, PRNK it can exist . India/Pakistan. Forget the US launching, or Russia. The issue is against immature nations pressing the button. 


15325 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2968

Trusted

  Reply # 1686701 12-Dec-2016 20:44
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

The point being, according to what I read, that it takes 200 warheads to wipe out the world even if not aimed at the world, and India and Pakistan have that many between them. Even if they only shot at each other they could still end all life (in any meaningful sense) on earth.

 

 

 

 

Not all life. I doubt their capability is that great. But China is next door. Winds, etc, will affect the Northern Hemisphere, and exchange to Southern Hemisphere is not great. But it would change everything. 


15325 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2968

Trusted

  Reply # 1686705 12-Dec-2016 20:48
Send private message quote this post

shk292:

 

Fred99:

 

The main thing I have against the "Air Force One" planes is that much of the cost (for systems to protect against electromagnetic pulse etc) is so that in the event of nuclear war, the Commander in Chief (Trump LOL) can safely fly around in comfort pushing buttons to launch more nuclear strikes to finish off the job.

 

That (IMO) is an abominable concept. So yes - I'd be happy if Trump canned it - even if for the wrong reasons.

 

 

It's called "credible deterrence".  If an enemy can "decapitate" the military/executive of a country with a pre-emptive nuclear strike, disabling that country's ability to launch a counter-strike, then it increases the chance of the pre-emptive strike being launched.  Arguably, the reason we haven't had a nuclear exchange is because both/all sides maintain a credible deterrent.  The reason the cold war ended was that NATO had a very credible deterrent and also had a stated policy (flexible response) to use tactical nukes first if the USSR overwhelmed Western Europe's defences with a massive invasion of conventional forces.  So, by wishing for USA to scrap an EMP-proof command facility, you're wishing for a greater chance of a nuclear exchange.  Personally, I don't think that's a good prospect.

 

 

Sorry, but no. It was about the nuclear deterrent. If you do, I will too. Doesnt really matter who does as all will be killed. Its about deterrent. And about the US not being dumb, and the USSR not being dumb. 

 

Thats fine, but these days, ISIS, Iran maybe but not likely, India/Pakistan possibly, PRNK, who knows


15325 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2968

Trusted

  Reply # 1686707 12-Dec-2016 20:48
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

Do you have any idea how stupid this sounds?

 

 

 

 

Referring to what post?


15325 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2968

Trusted

  Reply # 1686710 12-Dec-2016 20:52
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

What is being defended exactly? What makes it worth the risk of destroying the planet and everyone on it? If someone wants to say they are the boss of me that badly, they can have it as far as I am concerned. It is the dumbest, most self-defeating game of bluff and counter-bluff I can imagine. You are talking about two people pointing loaded guns at each other, and betting neither will fire because the other might also get a shot off before they die. What the hell kind of way is that to exist? If the 'enemy' wants to rule the world that badly, he can have it. Who cares who gets to call himself the winner? Better that than no world at all.

 

 

 

 

What you have described is the nuclear deterrent. USSR and USA can initiate that, kill the other side, and they will kill our side, that is why it never happened. Arch enemies, but not stupid. ISIS, Pakistan/India, North Korea, not as smart. The only bonus is northern hemisphere.


1628 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 857


  Reply # 1686713 12-Dec-2016 20:54
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

Sorry, but no. It was about the nuclear deterrent. If you do, I will too. Doesnt really matter who does as all will be killed. Its about deterrent. And about the US not being dumb, and the USSR not being dumb. 

 

Thats fine, but these days, ISIS, Iran maybe but not likely, India/Pakistan possibly, PRNK, who knows

 

 

Exactly - but the deterrent needs to be credible.  So if an aggressor can for instance do one large air-burst that generates an EMP and disables the deterrent, it greatly increases the chance of this being a valid strategy.

 

Similarly, if you have the hardware but a leader (eg Corbyn) who says he would never use it, that's not a credible deterrent.


19488 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5834

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1686716 12-Dec-2016 21:01
Send private message quote this post

shk292:

 

networkn:

 

I am honestly embarrassed by the tone of some of these posts toward other people. Honestly, you'd give Trump a run for his money. 

 

Can I recommend that before hitting the post button you take a few moments and re-read what you are proposing to post?

 

 

If you're referring to my post then be assured that I proof-read it very carefully before posting and I stand by what I said.  Just because I have a different view to yours and argue my case strongly, that doesn't make me wrong.

 

As someone who joined the armed forces during the height of the cold war and served as part of the NATO deterrent for 20+ years, I consider I have a reasonable level of knowledge of the subject.

 

 

It was not a specifically targeted comment, it was a general comment. I feel there are ways for people to communicate their points without using aggressive or belittling tones. If that applies to you, then so be it, if it doesn't then don't worry about it :) 

 

I find the distinct lack of respect shown from members here to each other in the course of discussions to be exhausting and sole destroying some days is all. 

 

Edit: I see why you thought this was directed at you specifically based on the fact I used the term "you" right after Your post, that was coincidental. I should have used "people" as it wasn't addressed at one person but as the group together. 

 

Sorry I wasn't clearer. 

 

 


15325 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2968

Trusted

  Reply # 1686717 12-Dec-2016 21:03
Send private message quote this post

shk292:

 

networkn:

 

I am honestly embarrassed by the tone of some of these posts toward other people. Honestly, you'd give Trump a run for his money. 

 

Can I recommend that before hitting the post button you take a few moments and re-read what you are proposing to post?

 

 

If you're referring to my post then be assured that I proof-read it very carefully before posting and I stand by what I said.  Just because I have a different view to yours and argue my case strongly, that doesn't make me wrong.

 

As someone who joined the armed forces during the height of the cold war and served as part of the NATO deterrent for 20+ years, I consider I have a reasonable level of knowledge of the subject.

 

 

All I know is that the USSR and the USA had a vicious Cold War, BUT THEY ARE NOT STUPID. Unlike ISIS, India/Pakistan and PRNK who probably would. As would Bin Laden, and Idi Amin if they had that option. Today is actually relatively safe as compared to what it could be. Humans are awesome, OR NOT

 

Edit: Coleslaw to Cold War :-)


15325 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2968

Trusted

  Reply # 1686718 12-Dec-2016 21:03
Send private message quote this post

MikeB4:

 

mutual stupidity deterred mutual destruction which would have been mutually stupid.

 

 

Can you clarify? :-)


1628 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 857


  Reply # 1686721 12-Dec-2016 21:06
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

Sorry I wasn't clearer. 

 

 

 

No problem and thanks for the clarification.  


1 | ... | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | ... | 730
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic


Donate via Givealittle


Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

A call from the companies providing internet access for the great majority of New Zealanders, to the companies with the greatest influence over social media content
Posted 19-Mar-2019 15:21


Two e-scooter companies selected for Wellington trial
Posted 15-Mar-2019 17:33


GeForce GTX 1660 available now
Posted 15-Mar-2019 08:47


Artificial Intelligence to double the rate of innovation in New Zealand by 2021
Posted 13-Mar-2019 14:47


LG demonstrates smart home concepts at LG InnoFest
Posted 13-Mar-2019 14:45


New Zealanders buying more expensive smartphones
Posted 11-Mar-2019 09:52


2degrees Offers Amazon Prime Video to Broadband Customers
Posted 8-Mar-2019 14:10


D-Link ANZ launches D-Fend AC2600 Wi-Fi Router Protected by McAfee
Posted 7-Mar-2019 11:09


Slingshot commissions celebrities to design new modems
Posted 5-Mar-2019 08:58


Symantec Annual Threat Report reveals more ambitious, destructive and stealthy attacks
Posted 28-Feb-2019 10:14


FUJIFILM launches high performing X-T30
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:40


Netflix is killing content piracy says research
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:33


Trend Micro finds shifting threats require kiwis to rethink security priorities
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:27


Mainfreight uses Spark IoT Asset Tracking service
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:25


Spark IoT network now covers 98% of New Zealand population
Posted 19-Feb-2019 09:28



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.