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3277 posts

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  #1747891 26-Mar-2017 09:26
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Rikkitic:

 

I don't understand why charging for water intended for commercial export has to be an issue at all. This is a sovereign nation. We have a parliament with the power to make laws that affect this nation. Just pass a law slapping a charge on any water that is exported as water intended to be sold at a profit. How hard does that have to be? I don't see why it has to get all tangled up in issues of ownership, Maori rights and the like. Why complicate something that is simple?

 

 

 

 

Simply because it "is" as issue.  The second you put a value on something that is free it becomes a trade-able commodity.  Iwi will want their share because they are tangatwhenua, IRD will need processes in place to track and manage the tax take, and if it's too expensive companies won't produce here meaning loss of jobs.  Start with bottled water where will it end?  Not saying it's a bad thing, just we need some careful thinking considering the related consequences.  If the bottled water take is so incredibly tiny (as is claimed) why would you create a system that would potentially cost more to manage and police than the tax you get?      





Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



1744 posts

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  #1747906 26-Mar-2017 10:26
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scuwp:

Rikkitic:


I don't understand why charging for water intended for commercial export has to be an issue at all. This is a sovereign nation. We have a parliament with the power to make laws that affect this nation. Just pass a law slapping a charge on any water that is exported as water intended to be sold at a profit. How hard does that have to be? I don't see why it has to get all tangled up in issues of ownership, Maori rights and the like. Why complicate something that is simple?


 



Simply because it "is" as issue.  The second you put a value on something that is free it becomes a trade-able commodity.  Iwi will want their share because they are tangatwhenua, IRD will need processes in place to track and manage the tax take, and if it's too expensive companies won't produce here meaning loss of jobs.  Start with bottled water where will it end?  Not saying it's a bad thing, just we need some careful thinking considering the related consequences.  If the bottled water take is so incredibly tiny (as is claimed) why would you create a system that would potentially cost more to manage and police than the tax you get?      



All excellent points by both of you. Shared resources and environmental concerns are complicated.

 
 
 
 


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  #1748366 26-Mar-2017 22:16
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JayADee: Jack Tame - Should farmers pay for water
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11823866 

 

 

 

many farmers already do pay for the water they use.   I always know when it is raining it is a good time to see my doctor because as a farmer he is not having to pay to irrigate his farm.  But alas, many farms already pay for the water they use and that includes farms who are simply using water from a bore on their own property. 


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  #1748438 27-Mar-2017 07:06
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Most don't though, apparently. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/53037/Watchdog-calls-for-dairy-farms-to-pay-full-water-cost


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  #1748474 27-Mar-2017 08:20
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  #1748482 27-Mar-2017 08:41
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Interesting. Who'd have thought a bag of chippies uses 185 litres. I wonder where the 185 litres goes after it's been used to make the chippies? I wonder how they calculate those figures?

 

 

 

And who'd have thought that a cup of coffee uses 4 times the water as a cup of tea?

 

 


gzt

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  #1748497 27-Mar-2017 09:01
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GNS science says 30% of all water used in NZ is groundwater. That surprised me.

 
 
 
 


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  #1748498 27-Mar-2017 09:03
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frankv:

 

Interesting. Who'd have thought a bag of chippies uses 185 litres. I wonder where the 185 litres goes after it's been used to make the chippies? I wonder how they calculate those figures?

 

 

 

And who'd have thought that a cup of coffee uses 4 times the water as a cup of tea?

 

 

 

 

A few potatoes at 25l water per potato might account for most of it - and they didn't say how big the bag of chips was.

 

Those figures can't be more than approximate, but at least show graphically that lots of water is used to produce food.

 

For example, with the cup of coffee, do you measure how much water a plantation worker drinks each day?

 


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  #1749863 29-Mar-2017 07:22
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Interesting graphic and mind expanding question about what water is counted in the cost of production. Papers are starting to echo the thoughts of Maori on water ownership.

gzt

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  #1749904 29-Mar-2017 08:50
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Graphic?



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  #1749951 29-Mar-2017 09:57
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gzt: GNS science says 30% of all water used in NZ is groundwater. That surprised me.

 

Not that surprising, considering all of Christchurch is on artesian supply, and probably a majority of farms use bore water. Putaruru tap water is direct from the blue spring - Pump water bottles are basically filled with Putaruru tap water. There will be quite a few other places using spring water as opposed to river/lake water. I wouldn't think there's a huge amount of rainwater use though.




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  #1749952 29-Mar-2017 09:57
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gzt: GNS science says 30% of all water used in NZ is groundwater. That surprised me.

 

Not that surprising, considering all of Christchurch is on artesian supply, and probably a majority of farms use bore water. Putaruru tap water is direct from the blue spring - Pump water bottles are basically filled with Putaruru tap water. There will be quite a few other places using spring water as opposed to river/lake water. I wouldn't think there's a huge amount of rainwater use though.


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Ultimate Geek


  #1756240 4-Apr-2017 12:15
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Geektastic:

 

CruciasNZ:

 

I agree that all commercial use of water should be metered and paying a tax, including both municipal and private supply of water to industry. The income raised could be aligned with protecting our environment and arresting the deterioration of our country for future generations. Articles showing how farming has rendered rivers and swiming holes extinct or harmful have become common, and that is something none of us should be comfortable with. Ideally I would prefer to see all internal use of water remain free, and all exports taxed (with hard goods such as dairy taxed on a % Water by Mass/Volume formula); however I accept that would be too difficult to police and too easy to abuse.

 

 

 

As for misbehaving kids, I believe that the LSV (Limited Service Volunteer) program should be expanded so that all teenagers must complete it when they leave school. This program is kind of a mash up between that Brat Camp program from TV a few years back and military training; basically you have to do all the fitness (mind body and soul) stuff military recruits go through, coupled with life skills such as cooking, cleaning, ironing, writing, public speaking, navigating, writing CVs, job seeking, study skills (you have to study for written and oral exams), budgeting and saving. I would like to see it expanded from 3 months to a full year and see expanded from its current scope to include self defence and driving skills plus environmental activities (like cleaning up after natural disasters, clearing litter, maintaining tramping tracks etc). It does not provide military training in the use of firearms, so those worried about that angle could rest safe. I think this would instil a greater sense of self respect, respect for others, respect for the environment, plus better prepare teenagers to cope with the realities of the adult world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We covered much of that via things like Duke of Edinburgh's Award Scheme, Combined Cadet Forces and so on when I was at school. Certainly beats spending your days staring at Twitter or whatever.

 

There is also a lot of spare time in a person's day when school finishes as early as 3pm and you have none at the weekends! We should definitely be filling that with something useful.

 

 

 

 

Why can't 'cooking, cleaning, ironing, writing, public speaking, navigating, writing CVs, job seeking, study skills (you have to study for written and oral exams), budgeting and saving' be done as part of school and not an extra programme


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