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BDFL - Memuneh
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  # 1772356 29-Apr-2017 11:03
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You folks are entering a quagmire. The censor can enforce something but most importantly is what YOU can do. The censor gives a recommendation that such and such programmes should not be available to kids without the presence of an adult so it's up to the adult to enforce it by whatever means available - an app PIN, unsubscribing from the service, curfew for kids, etc.

 

The censor doesn't have to be in everyone's lifes every moment to say over your shoulder "You are not allowed to do that". The censor can recommend and the person in transgression then should bear the consequences.

 

Netflix and other services provide technology to prevent kids accessing such content. Parents provide the framework for kids to understand why this is in place.

 

Deal with it.







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  # 1772358 29-Apr-2017 11:15
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MikeB4:
alienwithin:

 

old3eyes:

 

bmt:

 

People who are saying "unenforceable!!!!!11" and "who's going to police it?!?!?!111" are completely missing the point of why it was classified.

 

 

Easiest way to make it enforceable is to remove it from the NZ Netflix store.. That would make the censor and all those who are complaining about it happy..

 

 

 

 

if we remove everything that someone complains about we would have nothing.  i cannot think of a single thing at present that someone doesn't complain about.   sadly our society seems to of turned into a victim mentality where people are offended by everything.

 

I personally would give this show a much lower rating so that we can get the suicide discussion going in NZ.  It's a discussion we should be much further along if not for the stupid mentality of pushing it under the carpet so as not to encourage others to commit suicide.  

 



You are very wrong, I would go so far as to say irresponsibly dangerously wrong.

 

I think this does need to be discussed much more openly than it has been in the past, but I also think it has to be done in the right way. It is easy to be hurtful or to influence vulnerable people with offhand comments on social media. Something like this should not become a point scoring competition and Geekzone may not be the best place to conduct such a discussion. There are undoubtedly people here who have been hurt by suicide, and others who may be wrestling with it. An issue like this needs to be approached with sensitivity and respect.

 

Having said that, I also think there does have to be a forum of some kind where this can be seriously discussed. If Geekzone isn't the right place, where does someone go? Pushing it under the carpet clearly hasn't worked, so a better approach is needed. I would be in favour of a properly moderated forum and maybe that already exists. I don't know. I do think it needs to be taken out of the context of the psychiatrist's office and brought into the public sphere. If we can't talk about it we will never be able to fix it.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1772490 29-Apr-2017 16:12
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PhantomNVD: What's missing most often is self esteem...

Kids are MEAN, especially teenagers, and often their only way of establishing their own self esteem is to denigrate others.
Setting up an 'us or them' enables them to form groups, but if you're not in anyone else' "Us" then you have no real peer validation. As '13 reasons' shows, even a vivacious good looking teen from a stable and 'good' home can really struggle to have a sense of worth/purpose without peer friendships to validate their identity and share their daily struggles.

Teenage-hood is the time in which we establish our sense of self, independence, and personal ID... and we need peers and mentors to validate our choices to establish them.

There is no 'easy' fix, though having a religion gives many a life purpose and peer group.


Sure. But that must suggest kids in NZ are meaner than those elsewhere if we have abnormal suicide stats.

Are they?





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  # 1782752 15-May-2017 20:08
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One of my son's friends killed himself the other day.

 

I knew him reasonably well, liked him a lot - he was a talented musician and came around to jam with my son and friends, stayed for meals with us - I went to see him perform with one of the bands my son plays in. He was a good person - now gone.  It's shaken his group of friends.  Shaken me too FFS.  He had developed mental health issues - I don't know if something better could have been done for him by "the system" or not.  As far as I know, those issues weren't drug related. I do have several friends who are GPs, specialists, and health system administrators, who are unanimous that one of the main problems is of course lack of money for funding adequate services.

 

I read one Mike King's comments today with an open mind, I don't think he's being "political" - I think what he's got to say has a lot of merit.  I'm suspicious of clever bastard theoreticians regardless of expertise and qualifications.  

 

One of my old friends tried to kill himself late last year.  He doesn't live nearby, I got him to come and stay with us for a few days. I'm very much for "de-stigmatisation" of mental health issues, I know plenty of people who are nuts, I grew up with it around me, I always wondered if I'd go nuts, but no not really - apart from some ASD thing that some people see in me.  Anyway I think he's okay, at least I supported him to accept professional help, he knows he can call me not for solutions - but at least a non-judgemental ear.

 

It's a freaking waste, as an atheist I think we only get one chance, after that - "who knows?". Under some circumstances voluntary assisted euthanasia should be allowed, but that's a completely separate issue.


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  # 1782877 16-May-2017 02:09

Fred99:

 

I do have several friends who are GPs, specialists, and health system administrators, who are unanimous that one of the main problems is of course lack of money for funding adequate services.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This 100%.

 

 

 

The public system doesn't help you until you are standing on a bridge threatening to jump. Otherwise you go to your GP, who can prescribe you antidepressants. But if you want / need to see a psychiatrist, you pretty much have to pay to see one in private health system. If you or those close to you cant afford to pay for it.............

 

Then add in the stigma around admitting that you have a mental health condition. And that antidepressants have their own stigma as "happy pills". So no wonder the suicide rate is so high.

 

 

 

Spending more on mental health services also makes good financial sense. Add up what the government spends (both directly and indirectly). To raise a kid, pay for schooling ect. Only for them to commit suicide right when they have or soon will start working and paying taxes. Even a small reduction in the suicide rate will mean more of those young people then become lifelong taxpayers. You are also statisticly more likely to have a mental health condition if you are on the dole. So more mental health spending will also save money on social welfare payments.

 

As usual it is trying to convince the government to spend more now to save even more later. Arguing about Netflix ratings is just a distraction to the real problem. Yet look at how much is spent on trying to reduce the road toll. Despite it being far lower than the suicide toll. And some car crashes are probably suicides anyway.

 

 






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  # 1782908 16-May-2017 07:52
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Aredwood:

 

You are also statisticly more likely to have a mental health condition if you are on the dole. So more mental health spending will also save money on social welfare payments.

 

 

 

 

I think that there's a "chicken and egg" situation there, as well as being more statistically likely to have a mental health condition if on the dole, there will be other strong correlations with physical health, with substance abuse etc.

 

The correlations work all ways - ie if you're using drugs you're more likely to have difficulty finding a job and more likely to have mental health issues, if you've got mental health issues or no job, then you're more likely to use drugs to self-medicate, or to just ease your own misery.  So around it goes.

 

So we had a public awareness campaign on one aspect of mental health - depression / BPD, such as the ads with John Kirwin.  One part of the message - telling people to "harden up" not only isn't going to work - but is counter-productive.

 

But isn't that the standard approach of "meritocratic" society and of our entire unemployment welfare "system"?  Make it as hard as possible, reinforce guilt and lower self esteem by making these people feel bad about themselves? Then call them bludgers. 




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  # 1783036 16-May-2017 11:38
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I just read the government's so-called 'suicide prevention plan' that sent Mike King running in the opposite direction. It is the worst kind of bureaucratic bla-bla, meaningless generalisations that offer no real proposals. The only good thing that can be said about it is that at least the issue is finally being talked about. But this will do absolutely nothing to address the kind of despair and hopelessness that drives people to do such a thing.

 

A further step in the right direction might be to remove press restrictions on reporting suicides. Every time I see a coy paragraph in the media about an 'unexplained' death, I can see immediately that it is a suicide and so can anyone else with half a brain. All the coyness does is create an air of mystery about it. Other countries do not have the reporting restrictions we do and they do not have the high suicide rates we do. Logic would suggest that not talking about it isn't working. It might even possibly be making things worse, because it increases the sense of isolation people in trouble experience. Never mentioning it in public just convinces them that there is something wrong with them, that they are the only ones in the world who feel this way.

 

The argument that publicity causes copycats is open to question. Again, we don't have publicity but we still have a high suicide rate. There must be something else going on. In any case, in today's connected world vulnerable people can easily access all the public discussion they like, as well as step-by-step instructions and even encouragement by sick individuals. Keeping quiet about it in New Zealand doesn't protect anyone from anything. Serious, open discussion might.

 

These are my thoughts on the matter and that is all they are. I have no special expertise. I can only say that these points seem to make sense to me.

 

 





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  # 1783845 17-May-2017 19:27
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richms:

 

old3eyes:

 

Easiest way to make it enforceable is to remove it from the NZ Netflix store.. That would make the censor and all those who are complaining about it happy..

 

 

Who says they have to remove it? Netflix is not importing it to NZ, they are not retailing it, censors office cant do jack.

 

 

Actually, "Netflix New Zealand Ltd" is doing exactly that in New Zealand, and "Netflix Australia Pty Ltd" is doing exactly that in Australia. The company, having a local presence in both countries, is subject to those laws.

 

But anyway, that's not the point of classification - the onus is on the parent, really, to determine the suitability for their children to watch it and the level of supervision appropriate.


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  # 1860950 8-Sep-2017 14:43
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Somewhat related...

 

 

New suicide prevention training to support communities

 

Health Minister Jonathan Coleman says the launch of Lifekeepers, a new suicide prevention training programme, will help communities build the capability and capacity to support people at risk of suicide.

 

“Suicide has a devastating ripple effect across communities, not just for those who die by suicide, but for their families, friends, colleagues, neighbours and the wider community,” says Dr Coleman.

 

“No single person or organisation can prevent suicide. It is a whole of society problem and we all need to be involved, from Government agencies to employers, friends and families.

 

“The Lifekeepers programme is about increasing participants’ understanding of suicide risk factors, helping them identify signs that an individual may be at risk of suicide and teaching them the skills to intervene safely and constructively.

 

“This programme has been developed with input from both clinical experts and academics as well as people who have dealt with suicide first hand.

 

“The first Lifekeepers workshops are starting this month and the full programme, once complete, will offer a range of modules including face-to-face workshops, online learning modules, refresher courses and post training follow-ups.”

 

The programme will be delivered throughout New Zealand by the national health provider Le Va free of charge and will focus on vulnerable communities. The training has been prepared for a New Zealand context and uses cultural health models and concepts.

 

“New Zealand has had a long-term commitment to suicide prevention, and recently consulted on a draft suicide prevention strategy,” says Dr Coleman.

 

“All submissions received during the consultation on the draft strategy are being collated and considered. The submissions will be incorporated into the final advice provided to the Government later this year and will help inform the wider mental health work currently underway.”

 

The Life keepers training programme receives $530,000 per year which is an increase of $250,000 per year from previous years.

 

The Government invested $224 million into mental health at Budget 2017. This includes $100 million which is being invested into 17 new initiatives which signal a move towards a great focus on prevention and earlier intervention, as well as building resilience.

 

This investment through Budget 2017 builds on the $1.4 billion spent on mental health and addiction services in the last year.

 





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  # 1861023 8-Sep-2017 16:07
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Fred99:

 

One of my son's friends killed himself the other day.

 

I knew him reasonably well, liked him a lot - he was a talented musician and came around to jam with my son and friends, stayed for meals with us - I went to see him perform with one of the bands my son plays in. He was a good person - now gone.  It's shaken his group of friends.  Shaken me too FFS.  He had developed mental health issues - I don't know if something better could have been done for him by "the system" or not.  As far as I know, those issues weren't drug related. I do have several friends who are GPs, specialists, and health system administrators, who are unanimous that one of the main problems is of course lack of money for funding adequate services.

 

I read one Mike King's comments today with an open mind, I don't think he's being "political" - I think what he's got to say has a lot of merit.  I'm suspicious of clever bastard theoreticians regardless of expertise and qualifications.  

 

One of my old friends tried to kill himself late last year.  He doesn't live nearby, I got him to come and stay with us for a few days. I'm very much for "de-stigmatisation" of mental health issues, I know plenty of people who are nuts, I grew up with it around me, I always wondered if I'd go nuts, but no not really - apart from some ASD thing that some people see in me.  Anyway I think he's okay, at least I supported him to accept professional help, he knows he can call me not for solutions - but at least a non-judgemental ear.

 

It's a freaking waste, as an atheist I think we only get one chance, after that - "who knows?". Under some circumstances voluntary assisted euthanasia should be allowed, but that's a completely separate issue.

 

 

Deaths by suicide are now over 600 per annum...I believe that is almost twice the road toll? This has to be addressed by our Government as something is seriously wrong here. IMO social media has a lot to answer for here as well as a lack of expertise available. Not sure censorship has much to do with it as these days you can watch whatever you like because of the internet. Needs to massive amounts of research done before we spend too much more money on it so it can be understood. 


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