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  # 1785431 21-May-2017 11:55
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Dynamic:

 

... I've been a part of other social media discussions (when the gay marriage law was under review as an example) where a reasoned argument was met with personal attacks.  Posters to that thread were encouraging tolerance of gay marriage, but were completely intolerant of another perspective.

 

 

This is the worst possible example you could have used, given there are no reasoned arguments against gay marriage except "$DEITY says it's bad". Of course the people being marginalised would be intolerant of that viewpoint, given that as has been said earlier in this thread - "intolerance of intolerance is not necessarily a bad thing".

 

I also want to point out that the subject of this thread is the same thing. The only argument for the Muslim women forbidding men at this event is "$DEITY says it's bad".


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  # 1785435 21-May-2017 12:09
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Kyanar: The only argument for the Muslim women forbidding men at this event is "$DEITY says it's bad".

Wrong. The exact argument is that some women will be uncomfortable with that. This simply allows the maximum number of women to participate on their own terms. Ie; not unlike many other events organised by women for women.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1785436 21-May-2017 12:15
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

Not unrestrained it doesn't. It ruins it.

 

 

 

 

In this context can you define unrestrained and also advise how it ruins cultural diversity.





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

The is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1785438 21-May-2017 12:20
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To Quote Someone - do not know who.

 

Religion is a social construct, made by man for man and therefore fallible. But faith is immutable and incorruptible".

 

Too many people believe that following the tenets of their religion, which their forebears wrote remember, makes them righteous. No it doesn't. Don't get me wrong there are some good and great tenets in each of the religions but the majority of the "word" is total rubbish and not appropriate for today's society. ("Nakedmolerat: you need to see from the lens of the people at the time.")

 

Cultural assimilation is good for a country, look at Australia post mid 1950's through to 2000. All those European worker immigrants only enriched Australia with their new and different food and architecture to name a few. Yes they were mostly Catholic but again Catholicism is different in each of their countries. What they didn't do was try to force their version of Catholicism on the then mainly English (UK) Anglican/Presbyterian peoples (WASP's). But moving into the new millennium Australia is seeing a huge influx of Muslims and they do and are bringing their Shari law with them and they believe this law over-rules the existing law of the land forgetting or not realising there is a separation of powers between State and Religion in Australia and New Zealand. In December 2005 Sydney had the race riots that shocked the majority of its citizens, forgetting that race riots go back to the mid 1800's. But in each case, post riots, lessons have been learnt and greater assimilation and branching and building of ideas has occurred therefore enriching Australia.

 

The trouble is that New Zealand over the past 30 odd years has become way too Politically Correct mainly due to our social and political attempt to assimilate with the Maori and this is affecting the way we view and interact with other cultures and religions. We need to chill out and relax a bit and take the narrow focused blinkers off and welcome all cultures to our wonderful land so long as nothing is FORCED upon us.

 

Let change happen gradually and welcome it. We will become a far better human being for it.





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gzt

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  # 1785444 21-May-2017 12:58
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FineWine: But moving into the new millennium Australia is seeing a huge influx of Muslims and they do and are bringing their Shari law with them and they believe this law over-rules the existing law of the land forgetting or not realising there is a separation of powers between State and Religion in Australia and New Zealand. In December 2005 Sydney had the race riots that shocked the majority of its citizens, forgetting that race riots go back to the mid 1800's.

The Sydney riots had absolutely nothing to do with Sharia law. To link the two is utterly ridiculous.

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  # 1785445 21-May-2017 13:03
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The line I see it come back to time and time again is that embracing other cultures enriches society.

 

I would argue that its not embracing other cultures that enriches society its learning from them. Taking the best parts that work in with our culture in NZ and leaving the parts that do not.

 

 

 

Embracing means taking the good and the bad, we don't want the bad, we don't want ideologies that conflict with our own. 

 

 

 

Though the problem in this case may seem small, it's issues like these that will keep on eroding at our culture, changing it to better suit immigrants to the determent of the locals ideal's.

 

We've gone PC crazy and now its hurting us, no one can speak out as they're branded and despised. 

 

 


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  # 1785447 21-May-2017 13:14
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A good example of this issue is Church Corner in Christchurch. You might notice that almost none of the 20 odd (a wild guess) stores in this area are owned by born kiwi's. 

 

 

 

Some of the stores have menu's that do not include English. When visiting these stores you are not treated like a local would treat a local, you're very much treated like you're in their home country.

 

They have effectively built a mini city within our city. This is a huge problem, because they don't follow our rules, our ideal's and a lot of them do not even speak English!

 

As they get bigger they'll demand more rights, police the area how it suits them and further build on their segregation. They may not have malicious intent, this is just what they know and how they were brought up, but this is extremely detrimental to a society to have this segregation. 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1785448 21-May-2017 13:18
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ArcticSilver:

 

A good example of this issue is Church Corner in Christchurch. You might notice that almost none of the 20 odd (a wild guess) stores in this area are owned by born kiwi's. 

 

 

 

Some of the stores have menu's that do not include English. When visiting these stores you are not treated like a local would treat a local, you're very much treated like you're in their home country.

 

They have effectively built a mini city within our city. This is a huge problem, because they don't follow our rules, our ideal's and a lot of them do not even speak English!

 

As they get bigger they'll demand more rights, police the area how it suits them and further build on their segregation. They may not have malicious intent, this is just what they know and how they were brought up, but this is extremely detrimental to a society to have this segregation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you advocating repressing peoples from other cultures?   





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

The is no planet B

 

 


gzt

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  # 1785449 21-May-2017 13:22
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ArcticSilver: A good example of this issue is Church Corner in Christchurch. You might notice that almost none of the 20 odd (a wild guess) stores in this area are owned by born kiwi's.

I'm guessing you are judging purely on appearance.

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  # 1785450 21-May-2017 13:24
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gzt:
FineWine: But moving into the new millennium Australia is seeing a huge influx of Muslims and they do and are bringing their Shari law with them and they believe this law over-rules the existing law of the land forgetting or not realising there is a separation of powers between State and Religion in Australia and New Zealand. In December 2005 Sydney had the race riots that shocked the majority of its citizens, forgetting that race riots go back to the mid 1800's.

The Sydney riots had absolutely nothing to do with Sharia law. To link the two is utterly ridiculous.

 

Sorry that is not what I was doing, I should have put a paragraph in. You could equate the Sydney riots to the same behaviour that goes on some times when two countries meet at a soccer match. Even though all sides, players and spectators are born and raised in the same country their ancestry dictates they support their heritage and their blood boils when they walk through the turn-style.

 

I very good friend of mine told me decades ago that when one political or religious belief starts to destroy the culture of another then it time to leave or fight because it is our culture that makes us what we are; "a free willed creative thinker" and that is what makes a human.





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  # 1785451 21-May-2017 13:24
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When in Rome......

 

Given perspective, it is unreasonable for the father to expect to attend this specific event, media should go back to hunting millennial first home buyers 


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  # 1785452 21-May-2017 13:24
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MikeB4:

 

Are you advocating repressing peoples from other cultures?   

 

 

I'm advocating that we want them to follow our idea's and law's as a country and if that means repressing their culture then yes. They've come here, they didn't have to, in order to do that they should integrate into our society.


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  # 1785453 21-May-2017 13:24
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MikeB4:

Cultural diversity enriches society and should be embraced.

 

In some cases. But this is not one of them.


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  # 1785454 21-May-2017 13:24
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MikeB4:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

Not unrestrained it doesn't. It ruins it.

 

 

 

 

In this context can you define unrestrained and also advise how it ruins cultural diversity.

 

 

 

 

Unrestrained would be with no restrictions, for example the EU. Any person from any EU country can move to any other EU country tomorrow with no paperwork, no application, no checks, no job etc etc. The UK sadly applied not far off the same lack of restriction to persons from outside the EU. Angela Merkel applied it to people from the Middle East with no recognition that her actions would affect every nation in the EU once those people were in possession of papers and could move wherever they chose within the EU. Only recently has there been official acknowledgement that that was not a Good Thing.

 

See for example the Rochdale sex grooming ring scandal as an example of the sort of thing that happens when all reasoned debate is closed down by crying 'racism'.

 

A nation is entitled to decide whether it wishes to be homogenous or diverse. Part of the tensions usually arise because politicians do not make it a manifesto point to 'make our country more diverse' they just decide to do it regardless of the views of the electorate. Some diversity is good. Too much diversity changes the character of the host nation beyond recovery.






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  # 1785455 21-May-2017 13:27
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gzt:
ArcticSilver: A good example of this issue is Church Corner in Christchurch. You might notice that almost none of the 20 odd (a wild guess) stores in this area are owned by born kiwi's.

I'm guessing you are judging purely on appearance.

 

Yes, appearance and experience. There are some assumptions being made, but I find it highly unlikely that the business owners that do not speak English were born here.


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