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1014 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 1785512 21-May-2017 16:18
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MikeB4:

 

ArcticSilver:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

No, you are advocating racism.

 

 

Racism - Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

If I am not targeting them based on their race, so how is it racism?

 

If their ideal's don't mesh with ours so we should not be accepting their ideal's into our society.

 

 

 

By your logic, we should let Jim into the country and allow him to kill and steal, because otherwise we are repressing him and are racist?

 

 

 

 

I find your notions repugnant and I am disengaging 

 

 

Translation: You made a point (Islam is not a race) to which there is no rebuttal but I'll pretend it's virtue that has lead me to run from the argument.


1014 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 1785513 21-May-2017 16:23
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Rikkitic:

 

Wade:

 

People are adding proportion to this event which simply doesn't exist, This father should consider pulling his daughter out of this strictly muslim girls school and place her in a mainstream school as this will enable him to attend sporting functions. I suspect he would cite religious reason as main reason for not wanting to do this which make the whole issue a moot point

 

 

This makes a lot of sense to me.

 

 

 

 

Except it doesn't say she goes to the Zayed school. It's a invite-only tournament. I suspect she goes to one of those invited schools. So he should take her school to task over accepting the invite to an event with such an exclusion.


 
 
 
 


463 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1785516 21-May-2017 16:29
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Geekzone > Off topic

Come and be lectured by a bunch of UK ex-pats about how un-kiwi a game of social netball is.

2213 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1785523 21-May-2017 17:00
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cadman:

 

Wade:

 

cadman:

 

Wade:

 

When in Rome......

 

Given perspective, it is unreasonable for the father to expect to attend this specific event, media should go back to hunting millennial first home buyers 

 

 

Is NZ not Rome in the within the context of this particular discussion?

 

 

 

 

In context it is a muslim sanctioned event for the muslim community = Rome

 

 

No. NZ and its cultural norms are Rome to its borders and include everything within. You don't get to narrow the meaning for your own agenda. Exclude all spectators or exclude none.

 

The mere fact these girls might be "uncomfortable" with any male spectators should sounding an alarm bell to NZers in general about the nature of brainwashing they're being subjected to and authorities should be investigating - that is not normal behaviour in a western country and does not reflect the values of this society.

 

 

What are your thoughts on arranged marriages?


gzt

10872 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1785524 21-May-2017 17:05
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FineWine:

ArcticSilver:I'm happy to be proven wrong, that's the benefit of having a debate. Everyone comes out better off!


 I firmly believe the #1 problem we have today is political correctness gone too far and this is a prime example. Instead of ending the debate you should be trying to convince me why I am wrong, we're no better off if we all decide blindly our way is the only way.



Bravo - as I stated in my post - Bravo


Note: I added the bold


Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.

603 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1785531 21-May-2017 17:26
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If it's a competition where other (non-muslim) schools have been invited to participate, then I feel it is unreasonable to ban the fathers from watching their children play. The more reasonable solution would be for muslim players to wear the hijab while playing. However, after talking to my muslim friend about it, apparently they still may feel uncomfortable having men watch them even while wearing the hijab. In my opinion, this is where it would cross the line. I wouldn't want to see men barred from spectating their own child, simply because another child objects to the man looking in their general direction.


1014 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1785541 21-May-2017 17:45
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gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.

 

So your argument is that the father is likely only going there to perve because that's probably the only reason a man would want to go to be a 'spectator' at a gym. Jesus wept.


 
 
 
 


1014 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1785542 21-May-2017 17:47
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Wade:

 

cadman:

 

Wade:

 

cadman:

 

Wade:

 

When in Rome......

 

Given perspective, it is unreasonable for the father to expect to attend this specific event, media should go back to hunting millennial first home buyers 

 

 

Is NZ not Rome in the within the context of this particular discussion?

 

 

 

 

In context it is a muslim sanctioned event for the muslim community = Rome

 

 

No. NZ and its cultural norms are Rome to its borders and include everything within. You don't get to narrow the meaning for your own agenda. Exclude all spectators or exclude none.

 

The mere fact these girls might be "uncomfortable" with any male spectators should sounding an alarm bell to NZers in general about the nature of brainwashing they're being subjected to and authorities should be investigating - that is not normal behaviour in a western country and does not reflect the values of this society.

 

 

What are your thoughts on arranged marriages?

 

 

My thoughts are that they have nothing whatsoever to do with the points of this discussion.


2213 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1785551 21-May-2017 18:10
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cadman:

 

Wade:

 

cadman:

 

Wade:

 

cadman:

 

Wade:

 

When in Rome......

 

Given perspective, it is unreasonable for the father to expect to attend this specific event, media should go back to hunting millennial first home buyers 

 

 

Is NZ not Rome in the within the context of this particular discussion?

 

 

 

 

In context it is a muslim sanctioned event for the muslim community = Rome

 

 

No. NZ and its cultural norms are Rome to its borders and include everything within. You don't get to narrow the meaning for your own agenda. Exclude all spectators or exclude none.

 

The mere fact these girls might be "uncomfortable" with any male spectators should sounding an alarm bell to NZers in general about the nature of brainwashing they're being subjected to and authorities should be investigating - that is not normal behaviour in a western country and does not reflect the values of this society.

 

 

What are your thoughts on arranged marriages?

 

 

My thoughts are that they have nothing whatsoever to do with the points of this discussion.

 

 

You argue conformity to society is paramount, it is relevant


gzt

10872 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1785557 21-May-2017 18:34
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Sam91: If it's a competition where other (non-muslim) schools have been invited to participate, then I feel it is unreasonable to ban the fathers from watching their children play.

It isn't. It is an annual event organised by a women's Muslim community organisation to encourage participation in sport. It is specifically a women only event. It just happens to be using a school as a venue, and on a Saturday.

gzt

10872 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1785562 21-May-2017 18:38
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cadman:

gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.


So your argument is that the father is likely only going there to perve because that's probably the only reason a man would want to go to be a 'spectator' at a gym. Jesus wept.


Nobody who actually read what i wrote could possibly interpret it that way. Frankly that's disgusting and you should be ashamed.

17642 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 1785581 21-May-2017 19:09
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Rikkitic:

 

Geektastic: 

 

Not unrestrained it doesn't. It ruinschanges it.

 

 

My personal dilemma, and the reason I started this thread, is that I do believe in tolerance and am against anyone telling people how they should live. Different ways of thinking and being are enriching and I am very much in favour of the infusion of fresh ideas that immigrants bring, not to mention the services they provide. Without immigrants every dairy in New Zealand would probably have to close.

 

At the same time, I am very much opposed to all forms of repression. I am not an expert on Muslim family life but I would imagine that most Muslim girls do not object to the requirements of dress and behaviour put upon them, as they have grown up in that culture and these things are part of their norms. Also the demands of modesty and avoidance of the male gaze.

 

Yet, as someone raised with western values, who often finds even those repressive, I have a hard time accepting that females should have to cover up because males might look at them. My values tell me that if seeing an underdressed female is a problem, it is a male problem, and the males in question should quit trying to turn it into a female one. There is an easy solution. It is called looking away. It stems from accepting personal responsibility. But that belief comes from my own cultural background.

 

I think immigrants who come to New Zealand and other western countries should celebrate their culture and make it part of their new life. That has an enriching effect on everyone. But I also think that immigrants have to adapt to the countries they wish to live in. They should not expect to be able to maintain all of the values and traditions of their homelands. Getting along with others means compromise. We owe it to new citizens to respect their differences. They need to do the same to us.

 

Girls in this country should not be brought up in such a way, that having the fathers of their friends watch them play netball makes them 'uncomfortable'. The fact that a father wants to cheer his daughter on and be involved in her sporting activities is something to be welcomed. The values of those girls and that school should be respected, but they should also be questioned. That is the first step in a process of change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.  I love how other cultures dress in their national way. Burkhas I respect. I want then to fit in and also embrace their own identity. But, should any repression from their past country exist, we don't want that. We don't want Middle East repression of females. If ME females have a need to cover up, I respect that . Do it. Burkha. Swimsuit equivalent, no issue at all. Respect goes both ways. But in this country, Rome, do as the Roman's do, we don't ban. So if you play a sport, cover up if you want that, and play. That way you respect your own beliefs, and also NZ culture.

 

If I was a hot 19yo female, dressed in bugger all, I would respect their culture, and cover up. I would not expect to take my kiwi, wear bugger all, binge drink and smoke culture there 

 

The issue with this thread is too many are confusing racism, isolationism and segregation 

 

For @arcticsilver, I have no issue with isolationism. If I lived in Marakesh, I would enjoy and desire a kiwi community. I would also enjoy Morocco if thats where I chose to live. 

 

As far as Church Corner, I am not aware of any places that have no english menus, but so what? I'd go there, ask, someone will speak english. Embrace. But the OP's post was not embrace. It was ban. I assume I can go to Riyadh, go to a public school, and offer private bikini clad parties in order to bring my kiwi culture there? Plus booze, smokes and dope., as thats my culture. If so, then I back down. Oh, and if someone treats a female like sh*t in NZ, but its their culture, I should forgive that?

 

When In Rome. And what another said, Rome is NZ, not ME, you can';t have not both ways, you have it NZ way or ME way. That is a free choice.


2213 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1785584 21-May-2017 19:16
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gzt:
Sam91: If it's a competition where other (non-muslim) schools have been invited to participate, then I feel it is unreasonable to ban the fathers from watching their children play.

It isn't. It is an annual event organised by a women's Muslim community organisation to encourage participation in sport. It is specifically a women only event. It just happens to be using a school as a venue, and on a Saturday.

 

And a tournament that has been running here in NZ as a woman's only event for 15 years


17642 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1785586 21-May-2017 19:21
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cadman:

 

gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.

 

So your argument is that the father is likely only going there to perve because that's probably the only reason a man would want to go to be a 'spectator' at a gym. Jesus wept.

 

 

Agree fully.


17642 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1785589 21-May-2017 19:31
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gzt:
cadman:

 

gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.

 

 

 

So your argument is that the father is likely only going there to perve because that's probably the only reason a man would want to go to be a 'spectator' at a gym. Jesus wept.

 


Nobody who actually read what i wrote could possibly interpret it that way. Frankly that's disgusting and you should be ashamed.

 

Correct, but your also doing the same thing. 

 

A man wont have a desire to go to a girls gym or a knitting class. But they are not banned.

 

A man wont have a desire to go see a hajib free Middle Eastern girl in NZ but it is banned. This is NZ, we don't do cover up. If you need to cover up, do that, no problem. Then allow a Dad to see his daughter play the game. If the kiwi Dad and his daughter was in the Middle East, and she was expected to be covered, she would, as its their culture. Everyone meets the requirements. When In Rome. And in this thread, Rome is NZ.

 

To those that utter racism, that is a cop out. Its merely if you are in NZ, live our culture as we will live yours, as we do in your country, but we don't ban.


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