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17587 posts

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  # 1785590 21-May-2017 19:38
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Wade:

 

gzt:
Sam91: If it's a competition where other (non-muslim) schools have been invited to participate, then I feel it is unreasonable to ban the fathers from watching their children play.

It isn't. It is an annual event organised by a women's Muslim community organisation to encourage participation in sport. It is specifically a women only event. It just happens to be using a school as a venue, and on a Saturday.

 

And a tournament that has been running here in NZ as a woman's only event for 15 years

 

 

On a State school property. Why not run it on private property? If this was the Middle East, can we run a bikini clad event, where we smoke and drink on a public school property and be sweet? 

 

It is a bit sad when a Dad cannot see his daughter play sport, due to another county's religious beliefs, when the people from the other country should be respecting our values (i.e. no need to cover up), and participate. If their beliefs require a cover up, no issue at all, just cover up. 


gzt

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  # 1785603 21-May-2017 20:04
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tdgeek:

cadman:


gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.


So your argument is that the father is likely only going there to perve because that's probably the only reason a man would want to go to be a 'spectator' at a gym. Jesus wept.



Agree fully.


Nobody who actually read what i wrote could possibly interpret it that way. You should also be ashamed. Since there are two of you now, i will try once more:

The situation is no different from any of the 100+ women's gyms in NZ. Do you have a problem with any of those? I doubt it. Do you think those are against kiwi values? I doubt it. Some of those run 24/7. In contrast, you are objecting to a one day annual event organised by a community group for women.

Now why on earth would you object to this? Unless you also object to the many women only gyms it seems to me that you harbour some prejudices and bias which you are unable to articulate.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1785610 21-May-2017 20:16
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gzt:
tdgeek:

 

cadman:

 

 

 

gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.

 

 

 

So your argument is that the father is likely only going there to perve because that's probably the only reason a man would want to go to be a 'spectator' at a gym. Jesus wept.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree fully.

 


Nobody who actually read what i wrote could possibly interpret it that way. You should also be ashamed. Since there are two of you now, i will try once more:

The situation is no different from any of the 100+ women's gyms in NZ. Do you have a problem with any of those? I doubt it. Do you think those are against kiwi values? I doubt it. Some of those run 24/7. In contrast, you are objecting to a one day annual event organised by a community group for women.

Now why on earth would you object to this? Unless you also object to the many women only gyms it seems to me that you harbour some prejudices and bias which you are unable to articulate.

 

You need to

 

1. Get over yourself.

 

2. Learn too participate in a debate and not be a Trump and work to ordering everyone else to follow your lead as you are always right.

 

3. Stop insulting anyone and putting down anyone who doesn't believe in your OPINION

 

 

 

Unable to articulate? My god, ok, I get it. To be frank, your ability to discuss is poor, very, very poor. Read your post. But your always right, thats your issue. So there is no debate, clearly, as you cannot and/or will not. 

 

"Since there are two of you now"  That does clarify your post very clearly. Don't respond, as we all know it will go round in circles. 


866 posts

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  # 1785630 21-May-2017 20:25
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A man wont have a desire to go to a girls gym or a knitting class. But they are not banned.

 

 

 

 

This is not correct, I had to go to a women's Gym to set up their internet when they moved from one provider to another, the hoops I had to jump through to get through the gym to the comms cupboard. A staff member went through and checked with all women that they were OK with me being there and I was escorted through ( I can not remember if I was actively supervised by a staff member )

 

I dont think you will be able to find a "mens only gym" in NZ, as far as I am aware they have all had to allow women.

 

As for knitting groups, I know a few men who knit and I am sure knitting groups would accept them with open arms, Dont assume all knitters are female.

 

John

 

 

 

 





I know enough to be dangerous


866 posts

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  # 1785637 21-May-2017 20:33
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Nobody who actually read what i wrote could possibly interpret it that way. You should also be ashamed. Since there are two of you now, i will try once more:

The situation is no different from any of the 100+ women's gyms in NZ. Do you have a problem with any of those? I doubt it. Do you think those are against kiwi values? I doubt it. Some of those run 24/7. In contrast, you are objecting to a one day annual event organised by a community group for women.

Now why on earth would you object to this? Unless you also object to the many women only gyms it seems to me that you harbour some prejudices and bias which you are unable to articulate.

 

 

 

The situation is no different from any of the 100+ women's gyms in NZ. Do you have a problem with any of those? - Yes I do, it is blatant sexism, what is good for the goose is good for the gander, we are not allowed male only gyms.

 

Do you think those are against kiwi values? - Yes I do think these gyms are against NZ values, NZ was the first country to give women the vote and for years women have exactly the same rights as men in NZ, segregation is not equality.

 

John





I know enough to be dangerous


603 posts

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  # 1785638 21-May-2017 20:39
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gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.

 

Would a male acting as a caregiver be able to accompany his disabled wife to a women's only gym? This seems more analogous to a father attending his daughter's netball game. I would hope the gym would be flexible when dealing with this situation and allow the husband caregiver in. The father seems to have a similar claim to be at the netball, he's there to support his daughter. Why the difference in flexibility?

I can actually see this argument from both sides. Just playing devil's advocate : )


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  # 1785641 21-May-2017 20:49
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Sam91:

 

gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.

 

Would a male acting as a caregiver be able to accompany his disabled wife to a women's only gym? This seems more analogous to a father attending his daughter's netball game. I would hope the gym would be flexible when dealing with this situation and allow the husband caregiver in. The father seems to have a similar claim to be at the netball, he's there to support his daughter. Why the difference in flexibility?

I can actually see this argument from both sides. Just playing devil's advocate : )

 

 

Womens gyms. I don't have an issue with that. Same as women's toilets. I am unsure if there is an enacted law that will get me arrested if I ventured into a womens toilet or a womens gym. Doesn't really matter as its common sense. If I had to pickup my daughter from a womens gym at 10pm, I expect to saunter in and wait. I would not expect to see a Men Banned sign. If I was in the Middle East, and knowing the culture, I would expect a Men Banned sign, although depending on the locality, I would know that, I respect their country and culture and rules. But I do not expect to be banned from seeing my daughter perform a sport. Should there be some immigrants or children of immigrants who follow their parents culture, this is NZ, they do need to respect our culture. Very easy. Have a suitable hijab. 


 
 
 
 


17587 posts

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  # 1785642 21-May-2017 20:50
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Sam91:

 

gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.

 

Would a male acting as a caregiver be able to accompany his disabled wife to a women's only gym? This seems more analogous to a father attending his daughter's netball game. I would hope the gym would be flexible when dealing with this situation and allow the husband caregiver in. The father seems to have a similar claim to be at the netball, he's there to support his daughter. Why the difference in flexibility?

I can actually see this argument from both sides. Just playing devil's advocate : )

 

 

Its about being fair and respectful. They have their culture, we should respect that, but it goes both ways. This is NZ, we don't ban, wear a hajib. If ME, men will be banned. 


gzt

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  # 1785649 21-May-2017 21:07
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Sam91:

gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.


Would a male acting as a caregiver be able to accompany his disabled wife to a women's only gym? This seems more analogous to a father attending his daughter's netball game. I would hope the gym would be flexible when dealing with this situation and allow the husband caregiver in. The father seems to have a similar claim to be at the netball, he's there to support his daughter. Why the difference in flexibility?

I can actually see this argument from both sides. Just playing devil's advocate : )


It's a good question. In practice that would depend on the management and the membership.

gzt

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  # 1785666 21-May-2017 21:42
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SATTV: The situation is no different from any of the 100+ women's gyms in NZ. Do you have a problem with any of those? - Yes I do, it is blatant sexism, what is good for the goose is good for the gander, we are not allowed male only gyms.

I'm sorry to be the person to break it to you, because you won't like it. You are simply wrong on the basis of fact.

866 posts

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  # 1785679 21-May-2017 22:26
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gzt:
SATTV: The situation is no different from any of the 100+ women's gyms in NZ. Do you have a problem with any of those? - Yes I do, it is blatant sexism, what is good for the goose is good for the gander, we are not allowed male only gyms.

I'm sorry to be the person to break it to you, because you won't like it. You are simply wrong on the basis of fact.

 

Do tell.

 

I like facts

 

 





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  # 1785701 21-May-2017 23:35
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gzt:
Sam91:

 

gzt:
Political correctness gone too far. Oh my goodness there are so many examples of this. What can we do to stop this madness?

-Configure Gym
-Contours
-Curves NZ
-True Woman Fitness

There must be over one hundred in NZ. What would be the attitude if a man wished to be a spectator at one of these establishments for any reason? Exact same. It is an inappropriate venue for that no matter how noble the purpose.

It is an annual one day event for women only on a Saturday. Simple as that.

 

 

 

Would a male acting as a caregiver be able to accompany his disabled wife to a women's only gym? This seems more analogous to a father attending his daughter's netball game. I would hope the gym would be flexible when dealing with this situation and allow the husband caregiver in. The father seems to have a similar claim to be at the netball, he's there to support his daughter. Why the difference in flexibility?

I can actually see this argument from both sides. Just playing devil's advocate : )

 


It's a good question. In practice that would depend on the management and the membership.

 

 

 

Would it not be discriminatory against the disabled person?






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  # 1785758 22-May-2017 09:07
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

Womens gyms. I don't have an issue with that. Same as women's toilets. I am unsure if there is an enacted law that will get me arrested if I ventured into a womens toilet or a womens gym

 

 

You would be trespassing. I do believe that these establishments actually have an exemption from the gender discrimination clause of the Human Rights Act on the basis that they are providing a service that women would otherwise feel uncomfortable utilising. Personally, I think that the basis of that is bollocks - when you go to the gym you go there to work out, not perv at the ladies (or guys, whichever) - I've yet to meet anyone who has ever done that, other than anecdotally saying between sets "oh wow, she's hot" or whatever. That said, they have a valid reason for existence in that they provide equipment more suited to most women's gym needs, which a regular Anytime, Snap or Jetts does not.


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  # 1785782 22-May-2017 09:34
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ArcticSilver:

 

A good example of this issue is Church Corner in Christchurch. You might notice that almost none of the 20 odd (a wild guess) stores in this area are owned by born kiwi's. 

 

Some of the stores have menu's that do not include English. When visiting these stores you are not treated like a local would treat a local, you're very much treated like you're in their home country.

 

They have effectively built a mini city within our city. This is a huge problem, because they don't follow our rules, our ideal's and a lot of them do not even speak English!

 

As they get bigger they'll demand more rights, police the area how it suits them and further build on their segregation. They may not have malicious intent, this is just what they know and how they were brought up, but this is extremely detrimental to a society to have this segregation. 

 

 

I assume you're from that hotbed of fundamentalist whiteness that is Christchurch?! A city well-known for its progressive thinking and non-racist attitudes...

 

My favourite aspect of this kind of argument is the assumption taken that you, ArcticSilver, express to speak for the collective "we", as if there's indeed such a homogenous.  Well, I'm no doubt as much of a "New Zealander" (whatever that means) as you, and you don't represent me or my views!

 

Pre-Trump, I may have dismissed these kinds of posts as those of a rabid minority of bigots, but Trump's victory is good evidence we ignore this at our peril... Doesn't make it any less obnoxious to read, though.


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  # 1785787 22-May-2017 09:40
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Kyanar:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Womens gyms. I don't have an issue with that. Same as women's toilets. I am unsure if there is an enacted law that will get me arrested if I ventured into a womens toilet or a womens gym

 

 

You would be trespassing. I do believe that these establishments actually have an exemption from the gender discrimination clause of the Human Rights Act on the basis that they are providing a service that women would otherwise feel uncomfortable utilising. Personally, I think that the basis of that is bollocks - when you go to the gym you go there to work out, not perv at the ladies (or guys, whichever) - I've yet to meet anyone who has ever done that, other than anecdotally saying between sets "oh wow, she's hot" or whatever. That said, they have a valid reason for existence in that they provide equipment more suited to most women's gym needs, which a regular Anytime, Snap or Jetts does not.

 

 

 

 

Observationally, there seems to be an acceptance that women are special snowflakes who need their own things, whereas men trying to do the same thing are somehow misogynist dinosaurs or homosexual. Wherever you encounter men-only clubs, such as some golf clubs for example, there is always pressure on them to admit women and yet rarely, if ever, is there pressure on women only organisations to admit men. Another example is the Scouts - they allow girls to join after a campaign to that end, yet the Girl Guides do not allow boys.

 

Even the assumption that Freemasons do not permit women members is not accurate - there are (according to Google) Co-Masonry Lodges which have members of both sex and women-only lodges.






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