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Fat bottom Trump
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  # 1795898 7-Jun-2017 12:03
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MikeB4:

 

As I said, Sir Winston Churchill was not saint and his actions could fill another thread to rival that of Trump along with the actions of all the colonial powers. My point was that the lives being lost today are in 2017 and not 1917, 1817 or earlier. Neither side can claim cause being that which happened in the past or use it justify or deny just cause.

 

 

So you are saying that the past has nothing to do with the present? That there is nothing to be learned from history? That mistakes made then cannot inform decisions made now?

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 1795902 7-Jun-2017 12:08
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Rikkitic:

 

MikeB4:

 

As I said, Sir Winston Churchill was not saint and his actions could fill another thread to rival that of Trump along with the actions of all the colonial powers. My point was that the lives being lost today are in 2017 and not 1917, 1817 or earlier. Neither side can claim cause being that which happened in the past or use it justify or deny just cause.

 

 

So you are saying that the past has nothing to do with the present? That there is nothing to be learned from history? That mistakes made then cannot inform decisions made now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

re read what I wrote and you will know what I said.





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


 
 
 
 




Fat bottom Trump
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  # 1795903 7-Jun-2017 12:16
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MikeB4:

 

re read what I wrote and you will know what I said.

 

 

I did re-read it. Sounds to me like you are saying that there is no connection between past and present. I don't quite get that.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 1795905 7-Jun-2017 12:23
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Rikkitic:

 

MikeB4:

 

re read what I wrote and you will know what I said.

 

 

I did re-read it. Sounds to me like you are saying that there is no connection between past and present. I don't quite get that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No that is not what I said. I am saying that the past cannot be used to justify or deny the present and the present used to justify or deny the past.

 

edit; I do not wish to engage on this I want to respect those who have been lost.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




Fat bottom Trump
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  # 1795913 7-Jun-2017 12:42
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It still feels the same to me. It is like saying I don't need to apologise to you today because I slapped you in the face yesterday. I would instead suggest that my past act (slapping you in the face) is precisely why I should apologise. That is the justification. Similarly, it is right that Maori today be compensated for land thefts in the past. That is also a justification. I think the difference is when past injustice is used to excuse present outrages, as in that idiot shouting 'this is for Syria' whilst attacking someone. Massacres of the past certainly cannot be used to excuse new massacres of the present, but they can serve as justification for apologies and compensation. 

 

Edit: If you don't want to engage, then don't post in the first place. This is part of an ongoing discussion that is taking place here.

 

 

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 1795916 7-Jun-2017 12:53
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Rikkitic:

 

It still feels the same to me. It is like saying I don't need to apologise to you today because I slapped you in the face yesterday. I would instead suggest that my past act (slapping you in the face) is precisely why I should apologise. That is the justification. Similarly, it is right that Maori today be compensated for land thefts in the past. That is also a justification. I think the difference is when past injustice is used to excuse present outrages, as in that idiot shouting 'this is for Syria' whilst attacking someone. Massacres of the past certainly cannot be used to excuse new massacres of the present, but they can serve as justification for apologies and compensation. 

 

Edit: If you don't want to engage, then don't post in the first place. This is part of an ongoing discussion that is taking place here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is not your place to decide who can or cannot post in a thread 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




Fat bottom Trump
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  # 1795918 7-Jun-2017 13:00
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I was just pointing out the illogic of making posts and then saying you don't want to discuss them. If you don't want to engage, then why post in the first place? Of course it is up to you, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. This is my final comment on the matter. I don't want this to become another silly back and forth.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1795958 7-Jun-2017 13:16
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Rikkitic:

 

It still feels the same to me. It is like saying I don't need to apologise to you today because I slapped you in the face yesterday. I would instead suggest that my past act (slapping you in the face) is precisely why I should apologise. That is the justification. Similarly, it is right that Maori today be compensated for land thefts in the past. That is also a justification.

 

 

Its not my duty to apologize for the wrongs of my ancestors. I had nothing to do with that.

 

New generation Pakeha today don't owe any apology today to any Maori. I certainly don't and will never subscribe to that way of thinking. Same goes for Maori today don't owe any apology for the Moriori genocide. It has nothing to do with the newer generations, all it does is just prolong the hurt, and makes century old problems, todays problems. Best to forget and move on.


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  # 1795959 7-Jun-2017 13:23
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frankv:

 

Wiggum:

 

 

 

Cherry-picked BS... you could equally set up a scorecard for

 

Sts. Sarbelius & Barbea Holy Day Kill-a-thon

 

Muslims killed by Islamophobes: Attacks:1 Kills: 6

 

Quebec Mosque Shooting Kills at Least 6 -- Jan 29 2017

 

Go do your homework.


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  # 1795960 7-Jun-2017 13:23
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Wiggum:

 

Rikkitic:

 

It still feels the same to me. It is like saying I don't need to apologise to you today because I slapped you in the face yesterday. I would instead suggest that my past act (slapping you in the face) is precisely why I should apologise. That is the justification. Similarly, it is right that Maori today be compensated for land thefts in the past. That is also a justification.

 

 

Its not my duty to apologize for the wrongs of my ancestors. I had nothing to do with that.

 

New generation Pakeha today don't owe any apology today to any Maori. I certainly don't and will never subscribe to that way of thinking. Same goes for Maori today don't owe any apology for the Moriori genocide. It has nothing to do with the newer generations, all it does is just prolong the hurt, and makes century old problems, todays problems. Best to forget and move on.

 

 

 

 

We have a requirement to redress the wrongs and then move on and that is why we have the  Treaty Settlements.

 

 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1799080 13-Jun-2017 08:52
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MikeB4:

 

We have a requirement to redress the wrongs and then move on and that is why we have the  Treaty Settlements.

 

 

Treaty settlements have no end date. We will never "move on" from them. Best to scrap the whole progress as well as the treaty. It does nothing but divide the nation. 


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  # 1799081 13-Jun-2017 08:56
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Wiggum:

MikeB4:


We have a requirement to redress the wrongs and then move on and that is why we have the  Treaty Settlements.



Treaty settlements have no end date. We will never "move on" from them. Best to scrap the whole progress as well as the treaty. It does nothing but divide the nation. 



You believe we shouldn't right real wrongs?

The Treaty is our founding document, your idea is ludicrous




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


Mad Scientist
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  # 1799091 13-Jun-2017 09:06
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

 

We have a requirement to redress the wrongs and then move on and that is why we have the  Treaty Settlements.

 

 

Treaty settlements have no end date. We will never "move on" from them. Best to scrap the whole progress as well as the treaty. It does nothing but divide the nation. 

 

 

2 separate issues.

 

A contract is a contract. Just because people down the road doesn't like a contract their grandfather signed doesn't mean the contract is invalid.

 

Moving on is a process. It takes time. For some they can change boyfriends like clothing. For others a lifetime is not enough to get over a puppy love relationship. Everybody is different and that's life.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1799092 13-Jun-2017 09:07
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MikeB4:

You believe we shouldn't right real wrongs?

The Treaty is our founding document, your idea is ludicrous

 

I believe that the wrongs, that I or my parents had absolutely nothing to do with, should not be my problem as a taxpayer. I believe that this money could be far better spent on creating an equal society, instead of being used to further divide our society. Proof of this division is seen every year at Waitangi day (jeez our own PM does not even go).


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  # 1799094 13-Jun-2017 09:11
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

You believe we shouldn't right real wrongs?

The Treaty is our founding document, your idea is ludicrous

 

I believe that the wrongs, that I or my parents had absolutely nothing to do with, should not be my problem as a taxpayer. I believe that this money could be far better spent on creating an equal society, instead of being used to further divide our society. Proof of this division is seen every year at Waitangi day (jeez our own PM does not even go).

 

 

Re: my previous reply.

 

And a 3rd issue - money.

 

I have no comments. Pass.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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