Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26
4336 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1799095 13-Jun-2017 09:12
2 people support this post
Send private message

Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

 

We have a requirement to redress the wrongs and then move on and that is why we have the  Treaty Settlements.

 

 

Treaty settlements have no end date. We will never "move on" from them. Best to scrap the whole progress as well as the treaty. It does nothing but divide the nation. 

 

 

This is both true and untrue. The treaty settlements themselves do have an end date. 

 

However we are transitioning from the settlement phase of the grievance industry to the separatist phase.  The separatist phase is defined by push for special legal governing status and non-ownership property rights.   

 

So we will never move on. In my view there will be significant deterioration in race relations into the future. 

 

If only the settlements were full and final compensation! Separatist politics based on historical wrongs is never going to end nicely. 


1199 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1799099 13-Jun-2017 09:15
Send private message

joker97:

 

 

 

A contract is a contract. Just because people down the road doesn't like a contract their grandfather signed doesn't mean the contract is invalid.

 

 

Maori claims have nothing to do with the Treaty, they should be treated as breaches of the law at that time.


 
 
 
 


14077 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1799117 13-Jun-2017 09:36
One person supports this post
Send private message

New Zealand is doing it correctly we are addressing the issues and not denying and creating the seeds of unrest. @Wiggum you clearly do not understand the issue and the process, thankfully there are many that do. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

The is no planet B

 

 


Mad Scientist
20731 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1799170 13-Jun-2017 10:33
Send private message

Wiggum:

 

joker97:

 

 

 

A contract is a contract. Just because people down the road doesn't like a contract their grandfather signed doesn't mean the contract is invalid.

 

 

Maori claims have nothing to do with the Treaty, they should be treated as breaches of the law at that time.

 

 

Doesn't that mean all land that pakeha & crown currently owns would then be given back to Maori in its entirety? That would be bad.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


2937 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1799255 13-Jun-2017 12:24
2 people support this post
Send private message

Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

You believe we shouldn't right real wrongs?

 

I believe that the wrongs, that I or my parents had absolutely nothing to do with, should not be my problem as a taxpayer. 

 

 

The law is that you can't own something if you didn't obtain it legally. That applies to land just as much as to cars or anything else. If your parents "bought" property off someone who didn't own it, they don't own it either. This applies to the Government too... it can't just take ownership of something. There is no time limit on this... it goes all the way back to the first entity (person, company, or government) who bought the land off the Maori in 1840 (or whenever) or confiscated it illegally in 1863 (or whenever).

 

The NZ Government did/does "own" lots of land that was acquired illegally. The NZ Government (and therefore every NZ taxpayer) has had the benefit of that land illegally. So it *is* your problem, just like every other NZ taxpayer. Without knowing what land your parents own (if any) I can't say whether they are living on land that doesn't belong to them or not. It would be impossible, or at least impossibly expensive, and quite unjust to unwind all of those land transfers so that the land is registered to its correct, legal, owners. So the Govt quite sensibly is settling with those correct, legal, owners to transfer the land to the people who (incorrectly) believe they own it.

 

 


4336 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1799345 13-Jun-2017 14:03
One person supports this post
Send private message

frankv:

 

The law is that you can't own something if you didn't obtain it legally. That applies to land just as much as to cars or anything else. If your parents "bought" property off someone who didn't own it, they don't own it either.

 

 

Ownership rights are equally if not more important than technical legal ownership.

 

Now the treaty settlements are basically over, maori are trying to gain ownership rights over things they do not own. 

 

 


1446 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1799357 13-Jun-2017 14:13
Send private message

surfisup1000:

 

frankv:

 

The law is that you can't own something if you didn't obtain it legally. That applies to land just as much as to cars or anything else. If your parents "bought" property off someone who didn't own it, they don't own it either.

 

 

Ownership rights are equally if not more important than technical legal ownership.

 

Now the treaty settlements are basically over, maori are trying to gain ownership rights over things they do not own. 

 

 

<citation needed>


 
 
 
 


14077 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1799361 13-Jun-2017 14:19
One person supports this post
Send private message

surfisup1000:

 

frankv:

 

The law is that you can't own something if you didn't obtain it legally. That applies to land just as much as to cars or anything else. If your parents "bought" property off someone who didn't own it, they don't own it either.

 

 

Ownership rights are equally if not more important than technical legal ownership.

 

Now the treaty settlements are basically over, maori are trying to gain ownership rights over things they do not own. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to see some examples of this.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

The is no planet B

 

 


2937 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1799421 13-Jun-2017 14:42
One person supports this post
Send private message

MikeB4:

 

surfisup1000:

 

Ownership rights are equally if not more important than technical legal ownership.

 

Now the treaty settlements are basically over, maori are trying to gain ownership rights over things they do not own. 

 

 

I would like to see some examples of this.

 

 

I think Te Urewera National Park is an example?

 

It is now administered by the Te Urewera Board which comprises joint TÅ«hoe and Crown membership. The board will govern Te Urewera, develop and approve a ten-year management plan and undertake landowner functions such as deciding on concessions and permissions to undertake certain activities in Te Urewera. The Tuhoe (as part of the Te Urewera Board) have therefore acquired some of the ownership rights to the land, which was previously (believed to be) owned by the Crown (I think). However, this was part of the treaty settlement with the Tuhoe, not a subsequent thing.

 

 


4336 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1799486 13-Jun-2017 15:34
2 people support this post
Send private message

MikeB4:

 

surfisup1000:

 

frankv:

 

The law is that you can't own something if you didn't obtain it legally. That applies to land just as much as to cars or anything else. If your parents "bought" property off someone who didn't own it, they don't own it either.

 

 

Ownership rights are equally if not more important than technical legal ownership.

 

Now the treaty settlements are basically over, maori are trying to gain ownership rights over things they do not own. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to see some examples of this.

 

 

Everywhere. Off the top of my head...

 

Auckland councils Maori statutory board - non-elected, but they have rights over council decisions.

 

Taupo ironman -- iwi invoice the race organisers for the use of lake taupo. 

 

RMA -- iwi payments are required for various activities (a high profile case is Bob Jones who had 13 iwi turn up on his doorstep demanding $4500 for permission to replace a window in his building)

 

Maori consultation (ie, payment) is required in many situations under the RMA. If this serious power over other peoples property for little good reason.

 

Water rights -- maori are currently advocating for control over fresh water.  There was a full page ad opposing this in the weekend papers. 

 

Maori consultation and representation is being written into local and national government law, where maori are required to be consulted over various matters and included in council activities such as staffing ceremonies.  

 

Settlements were fine by me. Racial discrimination built into law, not so good. 

 

 


20990 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1799496 13-Jun-2017 15:48
2 people support this post
Send private message

 

Everywhere. Off the top of my head...

 

Auckland councils Maori statutory board - non-elected, but they have rights over council decisions.

 

Taupo ironman -- iwi invoice the race organisers for the use of lake taupo. 

 

RMA -- iwi payments are required for various activities (a high profile case is Bob Jones who had 13 iwi turn up on his doorstep demanding $4500 for permission to replace a window in his building)

 

Maori consultation (ie, payment) is required in many situations under the RMA. If this serious power over other peoples property for little good reason.

 

Water rights -- maori are currently advocating for control over fresh water.  There was a full page ad opposing this in the weekend papers. 

 

Maori consultation and representation is being written into local and national government law, where maori are required to be consulted over various matters and included in council activities such as staffing ceremonies.  

 

Settlements were fine by me. Racial discrimination built into law, not so good. 

 

 

 

 

You forgot Iwi trying to charge air NZ for flying over Lake Taupo :)


14077 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1799497 13-Jun-2017 15:49
One person supports this post
Send private message

surfisup1000:

 

MikeB4:

 

surfisup1000:

 

frankv:

 

The law is that you can't own something if you didn't obtain it legally. That applies to land just as much as to cars or anything else. If your parents "bought" property off someone who didn't own it, they don't own it either.

 

 

Ownership rights are equally if not more important than technical legal ownership.

 

Now the treaty settlements are basically over, maori are trying to gain ownership rights over things they do not own. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to see some examples of this.

 

 

Everywhere. Off the top of my head...

 

Auckland councils Maori statutory board - non-elected, but they have rights over council decisions.

 

Taupo ironman -- iwi invoice the race organisers for the use of lake taupo. 

 

RMA -- iwi payments are required for various activities (a high profile case is Bob Jones who had 13 iwi turn up on his doorstep demanding $4500 for permission to replace a window in his building)

 

Maori consultation (ie, payment) is required in many situations under the RMA. If this serious power over other peoples property for little good reason.

 

Water rights -- maori are currently advocating for control over fresh water.  There was a full page ad opposing this in the weekend papers. 

 

Maori consultation and representation is being written into local and national government law, where maori are required to be consulted over various matters and included in council activities such as staffing ceremonies.  

 

Settlements were fine by me. Racial discrimination built into law, not so good. 

 

 

 

 

Off the top of my head, Tuwharetoa  gifted the land that is Tongarairo National Park to the Government on the condition that they retail control of Lake Taupo. The also provides protection of lands and resources for Maori including Fisheries, water access, etc Tenths. Maori are the Tangata whenua  and should be consulted that is how a civilised society operates, unilateral decision making marginalises and fragments. 

 

If as a nation we return to a condition where we unilaterally deny those rights or unilaterally ignore the treaty we will so the seed of unrest in New Zealand and could result in Manchester like violence. The Treaty negotiations and settlements mean that this is dealt with in a peaceful, professional and respectful manner. 

 

 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

The is no planet B

 

 


286 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1799500 13-Jun-2017 15:52
One person supports this post
Send private message

thread title: bombing at manchester concert

 

let's take a look....

 

current topic: treaty settlements

 

that's some good tangent right there. I need a TL:DR





14077 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1799501 13-Jun-2017 15:54
Send private message

fizzychicken:

 

thread title: bombing at manchester concert

 

let's take a look....

 

current topic: treaty settlements

 

that's some good tangent right there. I need a TL:DR

 

 

 

 

I relates in as much as it is dealing with what can be seen as the root cause of unrest and the conditions for violence or violent regimes and groups to flourish.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

The is no planet B

 

 


4336 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1799514 13-Jun-2017 16:35
Send private message

MikeB4:

 

Off the top of my head, Tuwharetoa  gifted the land that is Tongarairo National Park to the Government on the condition that they retail control of Lake Taupo. The also provides protection of lands and resources for Maori including Fisheries, water access, etc Tenths. Maori are the Tangata whenua  and should be consulted that is how a civilised society operates, unilateral decision making marginalises and fragments. 

 

If as a nation we return to a condition where we unilaterally deny those rights or unilaterally ignore the treaty we will so the seed of unrest in New Zealand and could result in Manchester like violence. The Treaty negotiations and settlements mean that this is dealt with in a peaceful, professional and respectful manner. 

 

 

 

 

We are never ever going to agree and this is way off topic. It has absolutely no similarity to the events that caused the manchester bombing.  


1 | ... | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

OPPO Showcases New CameraX Capabilities at Google Developer Days China 2019
Posted 15-Sep-2019 12:42


New Zealand PC Market returns to growth
Posted 15-Sep-2019 12:24


Home sensor charity director speaks about the preventable death which drives her to push for healthy homes
Posted 11-Sep-2019 08:46


Te ao Maori Minecraft world set to inspire Kiwi students
Posted 11-Sep-2019 08:43


Research reveals The Power of Games in New Zealand
Posted 11-Sep-2019 08:40


Ring Door View Cam now available in New Zealand
Posted 11-Sep-2019 08:38


Vodafone NZ to create X Squad
Posted 10-Sep-2019 10:25


Huawei nova 5T to be available 20th September
Posted 5-Sep-2019 11:55


Kogan.com launches prepay challenger brand Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 3-Sep-2019 11:42


Pagan Online available now
Posted 27-Aug-2019 20:22


Starship hopes new app will help combat antibiotic resistance challenges
Posted 27-Aug-2019 19:43


Intel expands 10th Gen Intel Core Mobile processor family
Posted 23-Aug-2019 10:22


Digital innovation drives new investment provider
Posted 23-Aug-2019 08:29


Catalyst Cloud becomes a Kubernetes Certified Service Provider (KCSP)
Posted 23-Aug-2019 08:21


New AI legaltech product launched in New Zealand
Posted 21-Aug-2019 17:01



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.