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Batman
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  #1788502 26-May-2017 07:26
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dwilson:

 

shk292:

 

 

 

I find it very objectionable when certain groups try to normalise Islamic terrorism, or try to downplay links between Islamism and terrorism in modern western countries.  Like, "you're more likely to die from (insert inane comparison here) than terrorism", so why are we worrying about it?

 

 

The various terrorist groups have been very transparent with their plan to take the war to their enemies:

 

     

  1. Breed, a lot.
  2. Recruit people in their own countries to blow up, harm and kill others.
  3. Let the populace mistreat, tease, speak ill and commit retaliatory acts against the local Muslim population living there.
  4. Recruit the people and families harmed in step 3.
  5. Repeat.

 

I find it objectionable when certain groups insist on doing EXACTLY what the terrorists want us to do.

 

The religious element is just one tool in their toolbox, albeit a very effective one.

 

 

NO. 

 

This is where westerners have been deceived. America thinks they're fighting Isis. well firstly they created them. by destabilizing the region.

 

Guess where Isis gets their money and weapons from - not from thin air. from the oil they sell (eventually) to westerners, the weapons they get from Saudi (who bought them from America). 

 

And nobody cares. In fact Trump is selling more weapons to Saudi to "fight isis". Saudi is not going to "fight isis". Lol, the weapons will arm isis.

 

So the bottom line is - the more Westerners try to "fight" isis with western mcdonalds fast food means, they are building them. Go on, try more, Build walls, isolate non white youths, segregate communities, sell weapons, make deals with Saudi and Turkey, etc, that is just what makes isis even stronger.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


nakedmolerat
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  #1788506 26-May-2017 08:25
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@joker97 - Are you aware that ISIS attempted to bomb Saudi multiple times? The biggest attempt was to bomb the Prophet's Mosque.

Do you know who started calling ISIS - Daesh? Daesh is a derogatory term for ISIS and they hated it (sounded similar to the word fahesh). It was the scholars from Saudi.

Please - just like your many claims about Saudi, it appears that you hardly knows anything about them other than probably what was reported in the media or the inter-net.

Saudi is fighting a probably losing battle in Yemen. I wonder if this is why those Arabs are spending money to buy Arms rather than tall building!

Since ISIS is in the business of selling oil, it has to be countries adjacent/close to them that help them to smuggle the oil out.

I don't think ISIS is getting stronger. They are losing many territories. I hope they will be wiped out ASAP! I just wish Trump send the troops to Syria and took them out. I guess it is not as easy as that given there are many superpowers involved.

I do agree with you with regards to "destabilizing the region". Iraq was attacked to bring down Saddam and non existence WMD. Syrian rebels, Libyan rebels were encouraged to bring down their leaders and became the breeding ground for these groups. I just feel like things are getting worst after the meddling!





 
 
 
 


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  #1788560 26-May-2017 09:38
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Obviously the rulers of Saudi is against Isis. - but that's because Isis threatens their political and religious supremacy, or mana as we call it here. But they never once condemn their acts against the west. That's because they are not against such acts. [If you see how they treat fellow humans in Saudi only then you will understand.] Don't recall that ever happening after 9-11. In fact OBL is related to the Saudi royalty.

But the facts are that Saudi weapons do end up in Isis hands whether you like it or not. Donald Trump didn't even know that Israel was in the Middle East, his general knowledge goes like this: Iran - bad. Saudi - good. Mexico - bad. Russia - good. And that's how he rolls. That's probably how the western world rolls!





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #1788564 26-May-2017 09:47
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shk292:

 

Yes, the IRA terror campaign was horrific and yes, they at least claimed to be Christians, but IMHO that still doesn't mean it's some other religion's turn to blow us up now.

 

 

No-one is suggesting that it is all right to blow people up. It wasn't all right when the IRA did it, it wasn't all right when the Conquistadors slaughtered millions, it's not all right now.

 

What people *are* saying is that the holier-than-thou Christian attitude is hypocritical, and that Islam is no more a "religion of hate" than Christianity (or any other religion)... i.e. the whole religious aspect is a red herring.

 

 

I find it very objectionable when certain groups try to normalise Islamic terrorism, or try to downplay links between Islamism and terrorism in modern western countries.  

 

 

Correlation is not causation. Whilst there are links between Islam and terrorism, they are IMHO because of the way Muslims are treated in their own countries.

 

 

Like, "you're more likely to die from (insert inane comparison here) than terrorism", so why are we worrying about it?

 

 

Again, you've misread it. No-one says that terrorism is normal. What they are saying is that the risk is blown out of all proportion, so the response is blown out of all proportion. And the response is now accepted as normal: huge queues for invasive security checks at airports and other places, armed police, continuous surveillance, loss of civil rights. The over-reaction is costing us heaps.

 

I'd go further and say that terrorism is *good* for governments, especially authoritarian ones, because these "anti-terrorist" measures make it easier to suppress dissent and control their own populations.

 

 


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  #1788634 26-May-2017 11:27
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I know, replying to my own post, but wanted to add this thought:

 

frankv:

 

I'd go further and say that terrorism is *good* for governments, especially authoritarian ones, because these "anti-terrorist" measures make it easier to suppress dissent and control their own populations.

 

 

 

And, IMHO, if Muslims in the UK, France, Belgium, Germany, USA, etc felt they could express their dissent nonviolently and actually get some change, there would be less violence. (Certainly, this worked in Ireland).

 

 


Fred99
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  #1788642 26-May-2017 11:40
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nakedmolerat: 

I don't think ISIS is getting stronger. They are losing many territories. I hope they will be wiped out ASAP! I just wish Trump send the troops to Syria and took them out. I guess it is not as easy as that given there are many superpowers involved.

 

But what if ISIL retaliate with methods used by the Mujahideen as trained by dear old Ronald Reagan, to fight the Soviets?

 

US ground troops to fight ISIL probably won't happen - the loss of life of US military personnel would be immense compared to anything they'd experienced since Vietnam.

 

It'd probably also generate considerable (~ly more) anti US sentiment in the region and sympathy for jihadist movements who'll just mingle with civilians.

 

It ("war" against ISIL) is a war of ideologies.  Destroying ISIL infrastructure and blocking funding might slow them down and win back territory, but that's not going to last.  The territory that needs to be conquered is people's minds.
Then there's the crap regimes either supported by, or "overlooked" by US (and Russia, Europe). Pretty sure that weighing up atrocity vs atrocity, there was plenty of sympathy for ISIL to actually "do something" - without realisation of the consequences that it was never going to be allowed to happen, and they were probably jumping from frying pan to fire.

 

Sure - I also hope ISIL will be wiped out, but I've got no confidence at all that this will reduce terror threat to the west - and possibly the opposite.  Have seen many times now that a few determined individuals can wreak havoc - despite limited resources.

 

 


Rikkitic

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  #1788671 26-May-2017 12:03
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I believe that as long as people are willing to blow themselves up, or are prepared to drive their cars into random groups of pedestrians, no amount of repressive violence will be able to stop them. The only way to really end terrorism, whether it cloaks itself in the Islamic faith or not, is to eliminate the causes of it. Primitive knee-jerk NRA gung-ho Rambo let's blast them all to Kingdom Come type of thinking is just the lashing out of an impotent titan. It doesn't solve anything.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #1788680 26-May-2017 12:13
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Rikkitic:

 

I believe that as long as people are willing to blow themselves up, or are prepared to drive their cars into random groups of pedestrians, no amount of repressive violence will be able to stop them. The only way to really end terrorism, whether it cloaks itself in the Islamic faith or not, is to eliminate the causes of it. Primitive knee-jerk NRA gung-ho Rambo let's blast them all to Kingdom Come type of thinking is just the lashing out of an impotent titan. It doesn't solve anything.

 

 

 

 

The Japs thought the same thing.

 

WWII was quickly put to an end.


Rikkitic

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  #1788683 26-May-2017 12:19
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So you are saying the solution is to nuke the Middle East and most of Manchester?

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


Geektastic
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  #1788700 26-May-2017 12:36
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Rikkitic:

 

So you are saying the solution is to nuke the Middle East and most of Manchester?

 

 

 

 

 

 

A solution not necessarily THE solution.






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  #1788704 26-May-2017 12:41
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I bet Karrimor (a long established British manufacturer of mountaineering gear) are thrilled to have their brand of rucksack widely associated with this courtesy of the allegedly leaked images.






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  #1788707 26-May-2017 12:45
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Rikkitic:

 

So you are saying the solution is to nuke the Middle East and most of Manchester?

 

 

 

 

No. I said the japs probably thought the same thing


dwilson
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  #1788710 26-May-2017 12:52
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Wiggum:

 

 

 

The Japs thought the same thing.

 

WWII was quickly put to an end.

 

 

I'm not an overly PC chap, but would you mind not using the word 'Japs', it is an ethnic slur in many countries, including New Zealand.

 

 


Wiggum
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  #1788715 26-May-2017 12:58
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dwilson:

 

Wiggum:

 

 

 

The Japs thought the same thing.

 

WWII was quickly put to an end.

 

 

I'm not an overly PC chap, but would you mind not using the word 'Japs', it is an ethnic slur in many countries, including New Zealand.

 

 

 

 

Interesting. Thanks for the heads up. I guess I should be offended when somebody calls me a Brit.

 

 


Rikkitic

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  #1788724 26-May-2017 13:16
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How about wingeing pom?

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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