Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 
13073 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1801511 15-Jun-2017 12:53
Send private message



We must have moved in different circles. Many Europeans still remembered past wars and welcomed efforts to bring European countries closer together and make them more interdependent. Some had doubts about the single currency but open borders between European countries were generally welcomed. 







Not so much in the UK, at least amongst people I knew at the time.


Open borders were always seen as a risk and I think that has proven to be the case.


Of course, technically the UK border is not 'open' but the realpolitik  situation appears to be that it is, given that they cannot deny EU citizens entry (or those who hold de facto EU citizenship), regardless of criminal background, ability or intention to work etc etc.




I've observed before that the EU is more popular amongst continental EU states than those with large physical boundaries which are expensive to cross. Hans wakes up in Dortmund and decides to go to France for the weekend. He gets in his Audi and drives 3 hours to his hotel. Cost - petrol. Dave wakes up in Nottingham and decides to do the same. He drives 3 hours to Dover, pays $400 for a ferry ticket, has to take a passport so he can get home again and then drives to his hotel in France. On the way back,  he must declare the 2000 Gauloise he bought at the Tabac and HM Revenue & Customs decide that he has too much for 'personal use' and decide to levy $400 in VAT and excise duty...!


If travel to/from off-shore EU nations was free for EU passport holders (paid for by the EU collectively), I am sure that many people now not in favour would be in favour.

Fat bottom Trump
10396 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1801549 15-Jun-2017 14:05
Send private message

Britain has always been an outlier. They always wanted special conditions for everything and were never whole-hearted about being part of Europe. I suspect continentals are just thoroughly fed up with them. 



I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage


14037 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1801557 15-Jun-2017 14:12
One person supports this post
Send private message



Britain has always been an outlier. They always wanted special conditions for everything and were never whole-hearted about being part of Europe. I suspect continentals are just thoroughly fed up with them. 







To quote Sir Humphrey Appleby....


"Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing — set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch... The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times."

Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.


Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.




10862 posts

Uber Geek

  # 1801563 15-Jun-2017 14:35
Send private message




The problem is, it is not Macron's decision. He can say what he likes (and knows it) because the Treaty does not say that an Article 50 notice can be rescinded nor does it say that it cannot.


Even if it can, it would require unanimous agreement of all the states of the EU AND would be mired in legal challenges from those who believe that it cannot be rescinded, want to leave and can afford the cost of taking litigation.

Really the Eurozone can make any decision they believe will be in the best interests of the Eurozone. At this point May could actually increase her popularity by holding a second referendum. It's unlikely but it could work for someone.

Lastly UK can always reapply to join. The price of membership is likely to be higher in that case.

The Eurozone seems very unwilling to give any kind of soft exit. Now it depends how much individual nations will bend EU rules to make agreements with UK. Potentially it can start to break the EU. France will be a keystone for that.


That is because there really is no such thing as a 'soft Brexit'.

Since the Eurozone will never compromise on the things most Britains who are against being 'in' dislike the most it will end up being in or out, because the EEA rules (the so-called Norway Option) are pretty much the same as being in, except you have no vote.

The root  of the problem is, I think, that Britain was very happy to join what was then known as the Common Market; it was a sensible system intended to help neighbouring countries trade together more easily. If that was still what it was, then I very much doubt we would ever be where we are today. However, over time the EU morphed into a political organisation that quite clearly intended, eventually, to end up with Europe being similar to the USA, with Britain, France, Germany and so on taking the position of States governed on a Federal/State basis. At no stage were the British public ever briefed on that and asked whether that was what they wanted.

It is that which I think is anathema to the British character, in the same way that, say, suggesting New Zealand should be a State of Australia would be to Kiwis.

I think most British people's 'ideal' Brexit would be, in effect, a modernised Common Market. Unfortunately, that is not what the Grey Men of Brussels want to allow, because they are afraid that if that happens for Britain, a number of other countries might say "Hang on - I like the look of that!" and then the whole unification agenda is dead in the water.

The principle reason the UK would be decidedly unwilling to reapply for membership later is that a requirement of that would be to replace Sterling with the Euro and that, I think, would be a step few Britains would be keen on when push came to shove.

I agree 100% with everything you say.

The Maastrict Agreement in the 1990's fundamentally changed the EU from a trading bloc into a political bloc. There was no referendum offered because the politicians of the time knew that it would be rejected.

The UK has a bunch of exemptions from many political level EU things, which they negotiated at the time.

The entire Brexit thing is very much we got problems - blame europe for all that. It makes very little sense on a rational level.

There will be few winners in UK from these changes and a lot of losers. A rejoin and the Euro may begin to look like a good option after a short time.


1344 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1801596 15-Jun-2017 15:05
3 people support this post
Send private message



Britain has always been an outlier. They always wanted special conditions for everything and were never whole-hearted about being part of Europe. I suspect continentals are just thoroughly fed up with them. 





Brits have just never felt part of Europe the same way mainland Europeans do. The Channel is mentally much wider than 30 miles.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter and LinkedIn »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:

News »

New AI legaltech product launched in New Zealand
Posted 21-Aug-2019 17:01

Yubico launches first Lightning-compatible security key, the YubiKey 5Ci
Posted 21-Aug-2019 16:46

Disney+ streaming service confirmed launch in New Zealand
Posted 20-Aug-2019 09:29

Industry plan could create a billion dollar interactive games sector
Posted 19-Aug-2019 20:41

Personal cyber insurance a New Zealand first
Posted 19-Aug-2019 20:26

University of Waikato launches space for esports
Posted 19-Aug-2019 20:20

D-Link ANZ expands mydlink ecosystem with new mydlink Mini Wi-Fi Smart Plug
Posted 19-Aug-2019 20:14

Kiwi workers still falling victim to old cyber tricks
Posted 12-Aug-2019 20:47

Lightning Lab GovTech launches 2019 programme
Posted 12-Aug-2019 20:41

Epson launches portable laser projector
Posted 12-Aug-2019 20:27

Huawei launches new distributed HarmonyOS
Posted 12-Aug-2019 20:20

Lenovo introduces single-socket servers for edge and data-intensive workloads
Posted 9-Aug-2019 21:26

The Document Foundation announces LibreOffice 6.3
Posted 9-Aug-2019 16:57

Symantec sell enterprise security assets for US$ 10.7 billion to Broadcom
Posted 9-Aug-2019 16:43

Artificial tongue can distinguish whisky and identify counterfeits
Posted 8-Aug-2019 20:20

Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.

Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron

Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.