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rb99
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  #1797483 9-Jun-2017 21:01
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AS far as I know Article 50 can be stopped but the other 27 states have to agree to stopping it.





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gzt

gzt
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  #1797488 9-Jun-2017 21:06
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The media is talking about a hung parliament. Is it really hung or is it just waiting for a coalition to form? Unless it will be a Conservative minority govt with not enough support to pass anything? I don't understand it.

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  #1797492 9-Jun-2017 21:24
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BBC explained it to me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40209087

Tldr; Same as NZ. Except it's FPP so it does not happen often so they get a bit more wound up about it when it does.



rb99
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  #1797493 9-Jun-2017 21:24
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The New York Times said a hung parliament is when one party doesn't have enough seats to run the place on its own. So I guess that'll lead to a coalition if the Conservatives form one with the DUP from Northern Ireland. I think there could be a minority government if you don't have an actual agreed coalition but you can pass stuff with other parties agreement on a case by case basis.

 

...I don't think that helped very much.

 

Edit: Guess I need to type quicker.





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MikeB4
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  #1797498 9-Jun-2017 21:30
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My guess there will be another election within eight to twelve  months.


gzt

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  #1797502 9-Jun-2017 21:40
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MikeB4:

My guess there will be another election within eight to twelve  months.


BBC says the law changed in 2010:


Will there be another election?
Possibly.
In the past, when minority governments have been formed at Westminster, the prime minister has held another election at the earliest opportunity to try and gain a working majority. Or the opposition has forced another election by tabling a "confidence" motion.
The Fixed-Term Parliament Act - passed by the Lib Dems and Conservatives to make their 2010 coalition less likely to collapse - means an election can only be held if:
Two-thirds of MPs vote for it. In practice, it would need to be supported by both Labour and the Conservatives.
If MPs pass a motion of no confidence in the government AND an existing or new government cannot win a confidence vote in the Commons within 14 days of the no-confidence vote

2nd option would be messy. The sensible option would be a stable coalition govt. Things would have to be bad for the 2nd option. Another election does not necessarily change the outcome.

ScuL
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  #1797507 9-Jun-2017 21:50
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The UK is in a terrible mess, but luckily in some ways this result jeopardises Brexit, which is absolutely fantastic.

 

I despise Theresa May with a passion, she's a horrible woman who has done nothing at all in her years as a minister to control immigration and manage terrorism. She's made an absolute shambles of the Brexit negotiations by using megaphone style rhetoric to any willing negotiating partner and rather than bringing the UK together to be "strong and stable" she has managed to divide it even more so.

 

Personally I am a moderate (centrist) voter so I don't cherish either the Tories nor Labour. Corbyn has some extremist policies however the youth has massively gone out to vote for him for his statements on education, health care and legalisation of cannabis. 

 

When it comes to the subject of the renationalisation of the rail system, anybody that has lived in the UK in the last 5 years will testify that needs to happen yesterday.
The privatisation of the rail network has lead to greedy pigs sucking extortionate amounts of money out of the pockets of poor commuters.
When I worked in London and lived in Hampshire my monthly train ticket was around the £650 mark each month. That is nearly $1200 in Kiwi money, each month, just to get from your house to work. Absolutely bonkers. UK rail is the most expensive in the world.

 

 





Haere taka mua, taka muri; kaua e wha.




Geektastic
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  #1797508 9-Jun-2017 21:53
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openmedia:

 

DaveB:

 

Part 1 was the actual vote.

 

Part 2 was the trigger of "Article 50"

 

Part 3 - Is this a revolt too late and a loss of a majority for the sitting Government? Exit Polls certainly suggest this could be the case.

 

 

 

 

And you can't stop article 50... Or can you?

 

 

 

 

I think it depends who you ask. The Supreme Court says not - which is in part why they required the government to have a vote in Parliament before it was invoked.

 

OTOH if you ask the more desperate Remainers, they think a quick note saying "oops, sorry about that - sent in error and all that! No harm no foul." will be sufficient to make it go away.

 

I am in no doubt which side of that argument my money would be on!






MikeB4
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  #1797509 9-Jun-2017 21:54
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I am curious, how does this electoral decision jeopardise Brexit?


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  #1797510 9-Jun-2017 21:57
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ScuL:

 

The UK is in a terrible mess, but luckily in some ways this result jeopardises Brexit, which is absolutely fantastic.

 

I despise Theresa May with a passion, she's a horrible woman who has done nothing at all in her years as a minister to control immigration and manage terrorism. She's made an absolute shambles of the Brexit negotiations by using megaphone style rhetoric to any willing negotiating partner and rather than bringing the UK together to be "strong and stable" she has managed to divide it even more so.

 

Personally I am a moderate (centrist) voter so I don't cherish either the Tories nor Labour. Corbyn has some extremist policies however the youth has massively gone out to vote for him for his statements on education, health care and legalisation of cannabis. 

 

When it comes to the subject of the renationalisation of the rail system, anybody that has lived in the UK in the last 5 years will testify that needs to happen yesterday.
The privatisation of the rail network has lead to greedy pigs sucking extortionate amounts of money out of the pockets of poor commuters.
When I worked in London and lived in Hampshire my monthly train ticket was around the £650 mark each month. That is nearly $1200 in Kiwi money, each month, just to get from your house to work. Absolutely bonkers. UK rail is the most expensive in the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you ever live there when it WAS nationalised? On the rare days that there wasn't a strike, it was no better (and usually worse) than it is now, I assure you.

 

 

 

It does not jeopardise the fact of Brexit - at least according to the Supreme Court, which found that once invoked it could not be undone - but it certainly jeopardises the success of any negotiations and a beneficial outcome thereof.






Geektastic
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  #1797511 9-Jun-2017 22:01
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rb99:

 

AS far as I know Article 50 can be stopped but the other 27 states have to agree to stopping it.

 

 

 

 

I believe that to be incorrect. The Supreme Court says it cannot be stopped. The 27 states must agree to any extension of the two year period allowed under Article 50.

 

However, given that this was a General Election not a Referendum, and Parliament has already voted (with a large majority) in favour of leaving the EU, I am not sure why or how the election result would have any effect other than to provide a poor back office political support network for the team actually negotiating .






MikeB4
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  #1797512 9-Jun-2017 22:03
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The affect on the negotiations is why Theresa May's decision to needlessly go to the polls baffles me. 


ScuL
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  #1797516 9-Jun-2017 22:12
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According to the author of Article 50 it can be paused, or even cancelled, if all parties agree to doing so

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37854483/article-50-author-lord-kerr-says-brexit-could-be-stopped

 

Re the trains, I have not lived in the UK when it was nationalised but I have lived in other countries with nationalised railway systems and the efficiency does not have to suffer as long as the appropriate budgets are applied. What needs to stop is the charging of extortionate prices for services that should almost be considered basic human rights.

 

How does this jeopardise Brexit?

 

1) David Davis has just announced that this result is a clear indication there is no longer a mandate for the departure from the single market / customs zone
2) Conservatives do not have the majority vote to push through their hard Brexit agenda
3) The only way the Conservatives can still govern would be with the DUP, which seems to be TM's preferred path forward. However DUP DO NOT want a hard border between ROI / NIE.
4) Because of 3), Hard Brexit is no longer an option which would heavily upset the Tory backbenchers.
5) The new Brexit approach creates rifts between the Pro Hard-Brexit Tories and the other powers that be in the newly formed government
6) Labour are going to pull their weight in the Brexit debates due to the election results
7) Brussels no longer have a clear vision of what sort of Brexit the UK really wants (the lines get blurry)
8) Certain things the Tories still insist to achieve in a "Brexit deal" cannot realistically be reached because of the new balance of power
9) All of the above throws up numerous amounts of obstacles, the clock of Article 50 is still ticking.

 

My personal expectation is that the tossing and turning will cause such amount of frustrations on multiple levels that within the next 2 years either

 

A) a new general election is called

 

or

 

B) the UK will be booted out of the EU and will be forced to default on WTO rules

 

 





Haere taka mua, taka muri; kaua e wha.


networkn
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  #1797518 9-Jun-2017 22:55
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ScuL:

 

The UK is in a terrible mess, but luckily in some ways this result jeopardises Brexit, which is absolutely fantastic.

 

I despise Theresa May with a passion, she's a horrible woman who has done nothing at all in her years as a minister to control immigration and manage terrorism. She's made an absolute shambles of the Brexit negotiations by using megaphone style rhetoric to any willing negotiating partner and rather than bringing the UK together to be "strong and stable" she has managed to divide it even more so.

 

Personally I am a moderate (centrist) voter so I don't cherish either the Tories nor Labour. Corbyn has some extremist policies however the youth has massively gone out to vote for him for his statements on education, health care and legalisation of cannabis. 

 

When it comes to the subject of the renationalisation of the rail system, anybody that has lived in the UK in the last 5 years will testify that needs to happen yesterday.
The privatisation of the rail network has lead to greedy pigs sucking extortionate amounts of money out of the pockets of poor commuters.
When I worked in London and lived in Hampshire my monthly train ticket was around the £650 mark each month. That is nearly $1200 in Kiwi money, each month, just to get from your house to work. Absolutely bonkers. UK rail is the most expensive in the world.

 

 

 

 


Corbyn has effectively "stolen" this election by promising free education just like Labour did those years ago. Without it, I wonder what his voting numbers look like. 

 

 


networkn
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  #1797519 9-Jun-2017 22:57
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I honestly despair at the ... (trying to find a fug friendly way of describing these voters) idiots voting in the extremes in the hope something magical will happen in the world, when in fact they are just making it worse. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but I am honestly horrified at what world my kids will be teenagers and adults in.

 

The world feels horribly unstable, and every day I wake wondering what new blow the news will deliver.

 

 


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