Winston. Kingmaker? Could Well Be.

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#1824979 19-Jul-2017 09:26

Never liked Metiria Turei.

What surprised me (or actually not really, it is the greens after all"), is that she shows no remorse, or is even willing to step down. That just shows what the green party is all about. Metiria is a co-leader of the Greens, meaning that she will receive quiet a high spot in office should the greens make it into goverment. This would be a disaster. In NZ we love making jokes about Trump, the US etc.. This is far worse, and just proves my original point the some NZ politicians are far worse than Trump.

She says its her responsibility to be honest as a MP? Its more than that Metiria, step down. You a fraud, and you stole taxpayer money, lots of it.

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tdgeek

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#1824982 19-Jul-2017 09:31

frankv:

tdgeek:

frankv:

Winston is a career politician. IMHO he's more focussed on "getting a vote" than most of the rest.

In that case, if we are happy with the focus of our parties and politicians in running the country, lets forget about it, National should win, and lets discuss other topics. Lets not even bother with seeing what policies are on offer, just let them get on with it

Just saying that your proposed solution (voting Winston) is not going to "blow the dust away" because he's a big lump of dust. And it will "shake up the barrel" in the same way that electing Trump shook up the American barrel; lots of noise and no real change.

Let's look for other solutions.

Its not voting him, its if he is the Kingmaker. These are just your and my opinions, not facts

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#1824986 19-Jul-2017 09:39

Wiggum:

Never liked Metiria Turei.

What surprised me (or actually not really, it is the greens after all"), is that she shows no remorse, or is even willing to step down. That just shows what the green party is all about. Metiria is a co-leader of the Greens, meaning that she will receive quiet a high spot in office should the greens make it into goverment. This would be a disaster. In NZ we love making jokes about Trump, the US etc.. This is far worse, and just proves my original point the some NZ politicians are far worse than Trump.

She says its her responsibility to be honest as a MP? Its more than that Metiria, step down. You a fraud, and you stole taxpayer money, lots of it.

Comparing Trump to some NZ politicians. Thats crazy talk. What the issue is that some have a hatefest for some politicians and the party. Hence a political thread is not a great idea, its just a repeated A vs B.

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#1824997 19-Jul-2017 09:59

Wiggum:In NZ we love making jokes about Trump, the US etc.. This is far worse, and just proves my original point the some NZ politicians are far worse than Trump.

Not defending her at all, and think her total lack of remorse is shameful. But far worse than Trump? Are you joking?

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#1824998 19-Jul-2017 09:59

Wiggum:

Never liked Metiria Turei.

What surprised me (or actually not really, it is the greens after all"), is that she shows no remorse, or is even willing to step down. That just shows what the green party is all about. Metiria is a co-leader of the Greens, meaning that she will receive quiet a high spot in office should the greens make it into goverment. This would be a disaster. In NZ we love making jokes about Trump, the US etc.. This is far worse, and just proves my original point the some NZ politicians are far worse than Trump.

She says its her responsibility to be honest as a MP? Its more than that Metiria, step down. You a fraud, and you stole taxpayer money, lots of it.

Bla bla bla. The only part of your statement that is real is the first line. Everything else proceeds from that.

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sen8or

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#1825002 19-Jul-2017 10:10

She openly admitted to committing benefit fraud, how is only the first line real?

If she did actually have some level of remorse, she would do her own assessment of the additional benefit received, then either repay the Govt directly or donate it to a kids charity, not simply state "if I am investigated, I'll pay it back", that is about as weak of an "apology" as you can get.

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#1825005 19-Jul-2017 10:17

What has Metiria Turei's response been to opposing MPs who have committed unethical/illegal acts? Has she called for their resignation/sacking etc etc? Whatever her attitude to others has been to her opponents, she should apply those same standards to herself now.

She is a list MP (all the green MPs are I believe) so the Greens partkom could presumably do the right thing and exit her?

Mike

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#1825011 19-Jul-2017 10:24

Disregarding Turei personally, this

"...Greens' policy pledge to increase all benefits by 20 per cent and remove penalties for beneficiaries who fail drug tests or do not look for jobs."

is more than enough to render that party unelectable in my view.

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#1825013 19-Jul-2017 10:25

MikeAqua:

What has Metiria Turei's response been to opposing MPs who have committed unethical/illegal acts? Has she called for their resignation/sacking etc etc? Whatever her attitude to others has been to her opponents, she should apply those same standards to herself now.

She is a list MP (all the green MPs are I believe) so the Greens partkom could presumably do the right thing and exit her?

This is a sensible comment. Moral outrage aside, I think the way she did it was dumb politically. If she wanted to use this to make a political point, it would have been much better if she had quietly gone to WINZ at a much earlier time, explained the situation, and offered to pay. They could have then chosen whether to prosecute her or not. She could have then used the story at election time or when it came out if she was still in office. That would have looked much better.

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Wiggum

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#1825017 19-Jul-2017 10:30

Rikkitic:

I think the way she did it was dumb politically.

No I think what she did was bad. Most MP's would step down.

The NZgreens are just showing their inner self.

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#1825022 19-Jul-2017 10:51

JimmyH:

Inability to understand the Crown's finances - saying that their package is affordable because is will cost $1.4 billion and that's less than the government's surplus of $1.8 billion Here (hint: the surplus isn't spare cash, it's the operating balance - after capital expenditure the government is still cash flow negative, running up net debt, and it doesn't have $1.8 billion in spare cash rolling in to spend)

Just a thought - and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you - but if the Greens are guilty of doing that then so is the National Party; after all, that $1.4B surplus is what they intend to make tax cuts out of.

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#1825024 19-Jul-2017 10:53

networkn:

frankv:

networkn:

Let's see. She did it in the first place, she hid it for 20 odd years, then she brings it out when she knows it's beyond any time frame she could get in serious trouble, and has the audacity to use it for policical collateral.

Seems morally bankrupt in every sense of the word.

My sense of right or wrong would categorically prevent me from behaving this way.

You seem to be conflating "legal" with "moral". Couldn't it be that the law was immoral?

Well, the original matter was illegal was it not? Everything else is just scumbaggery.

I assume the original matter was illegal... as I understand it, not reporting that she received rent whilst she was on a benefit. But IANAL.

However, my point is that you're using words like "morally bankrupt" and "My sense of right or wrong"... i.e. moral judgements rather than legal ones. Laws do not equate to morals. It's entirely possible to act legally but immorally, and to act illegally but morally. Whether the original matter was illegal is not definitive if you're making a moral judgement.

One could make the claim that the law that she broke was immoral (e.g. because the benefit level was too low to survive on, or the punishment too draconian, or it's unfair to reduce the benefit for rental income, whatever) in which case breaking the law is not immoral, and neither is evading punishment.

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#1825029 19-Jul-2017 11:08

Rikkitic:

Moral outrage aside, I think the way she did it was dumb politically. If she wanted to use this to make a political point, it would have been much better if she had quietly gone to WINZ at a much earlier time, explained the situation, and offered to pay. They could have then chosen whether to prosecute her or not. She could have then used the story at election time or when it came out if she was still in office. That would have looked much better.

Yeah. I suspect that someone else (Green Party rivals, WhaleOil, Peter Dunne, Winston Peters, Nicky Hagar, Colin Craig, Breitbart, WINZ, IRD, whoever) had learnt about it and was about to publicize it for a whole lot of political points, possibly including forcing her resignation. So this is damage control; publicize it herself first in a less dramatic way, casting herself as an honest confessor. And hoping to make a point on the side.

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#1825043 19-Jul-2017 11:33

Wiggum:

No I think what she did was bad. Most MP's would step down.

Yeah Right, Tui. Like Bill English did after his house-rental rort was exposed. Like Todd Barclay did after his illegal recording. Like Bill English did after lying to the House about Todd Barclay's recording. Judith Collins conflict of interest? Maurice Williamson and his National Party donor? NZ First's Tracey Martin double-dipping MP?

When was the last time an MP stepped down after being caught doing something illegal? Let alone admitting they did it *before* getting caught?

Mike Sabin in Jan 2015?

Darren Hughes in March 2011?

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#1825044 19-Jul-2017 11:34

What she did was wrong, she was required to declare all sources of income, MSD then decides if it affects any Benefit she was recieving. Beneficiaries at the time were allowed from memory up to three borders before it affected the primary Benefit, after that a portion of the board being paid was regarded as rent income and chargeable, the usual exemption and calculations were then applied to the primary Benefit, any supplimentary support is assessed differently. If it were rent being recieved the "profit" from rental is assessed as chargeable income against the primary Benefit, also the net worth of the property is chargeable against supplimentary Benefit assessments and against the primary benefit by way of constructive income. After all these assessment she may or may not have been assessed for a reduced level of Benefit payment.

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