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14424 posts

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  # 1872945 26-Sep-2017 10:42
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Fred99:

 

 

 

They'd (Labour) probably get more, as parties claiming to represent primarily Maori would wane, and those votes would go to Labour.

 

It's inconceivable that both National and Labour don't fully understand that.  Their actions - and in particular National under Brash - and possibly again under English if he forms government with Peters and concedes on that, show that they will use it as a political football. It's a debate the country doesn't need.

 

 

I agree it is a debate NZ does not need. We have too many issues and divisions now this would be a smoke screen with little or no gain and potential to lose a lot.





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


gzt

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  # 1872963 26-Sep-2017 11:05
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This issue in NZ politics has been on the back burner for a long time. It's more or less a non-issue. Imo there would be significant numbers in both National party and NZ First who would not see the sense of changing it, or changing it in this way. Even given it has been the policy of both parties for some time if I recall correctly.

 
 
 
 




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  # 1872976 26-Sep-2017 11:19
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Winston will demand a referendum as these seats imo are well past their use by date. But it will be the people of N Z who decide if they stay or go. This may be devisive, but does need to happen. I don't understand the need for them..I never have, they are racist. The Maori people I know all vote on the main role and they call themselves NZers like most of us. Afterall what percentage are Maori again in our total population.

 

Its all part of us growing up as a nation. Time to consider Republicanism as well...as I am sure most wouldnt want Charlie as head of state.  


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  # 1872982 26-Sep-2017 11:33
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Pumpedd:

 

Winston will demand a referendum as these seats imo are well past their use by date. But it will be the people of N Z who decide if they stay or go. This may be devisive, but does need to happen. I don't understand the need for them..I never have, they are racist. The Maori people I know all vote on the main role and they call themselves NZers like most of us. Afterall what percentage are Maori again in our total population.

 

Its all part of us growing up as a nation. Time to consider Republicanism as well...as I am sure most wouldnt want Charlie as head of state.  

 

 

 

 

That is irrelevant Maori are the indigenous people of Aotearoa. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1872983 26-Sep-2017 11:35
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MikeB4:
Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:
darylblake:

 

 

 

Maori seats should be gone. As much as I hate to say it winston is right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No other countries have this nonsense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We don't make white people only seats, or asian seats, just because they were supposedly here first/second/third etc. We are never going to abolish racisim or become one nation with exceptional rules for a selected few.

 

 

 



Not supposedly first.......Maori were first and UN recognised as the indigenous people’s. Race relations will never improve until that is universally accepted here and that indicates the Maori seats are still required.

 

 

 

Democracy and rights for second and first don't work together. Seats need to go.

 



That maybe so it that is for Maori to decide. If they no longer feel disenfranchised they will vote go, if they no longer feel disadvantaged they will vote go, if they feel the Treaty is being honoured they will vote go, if they feel to be equals they will vote go. If not and they vote for the seats to remain then so be it.

 

Nonsense. They are not going to choose to give up a right. 
I am so sick of Maori's getting free education etc. This went down over 150 years ago. If a Maori person I know has a kid, that kid can get cheap/free tertiary study, if a 4th generation New Zealander has a child, they too should have the same rights as that Maori child. People cannot choose their parents.

 

The social problem here is not all Maori were treated fairly. And even the on-going settlements are wrong. There are many Maori out there who have been hard done by, there are also many Maori out there who have had wild ride. You could use the same argument about pakeha' as well.


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  # 1872988 26-Sep-2017 11:39
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darylblake:

 

 

 

Nonsense. They are not going to choose to give up a right. 
I am so sick of Maori's getting free education etc. This went down over 150 years ago. If a Maori person I know has a kid, that kid can get cheap/free tertiary study, if a 4th generation New Zealander has a child, they too should have the same rights as that Maori child. People cannot choose their parents.

 

The social problem here is not all Maori were treated fairly. And even the on-going settlements are wrong. There are many Maori out there who have been hard done by, there are also many Maori out there who have had wild ride. You could use the same argument about pakeha' as well.

 

 

I am not going to take part in racist conversation. 





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1872991 26-Sep-2017 11:51
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MikeB4:

 

darylblake:

 

 

 

Nonsense. They are not going to choose to give up a right. 
I am so sick of Maori's getting free education etc. This went down over 150 years ago. If a Maori person I know has a kid, that kid can get cheap/free tertiary study, if a 4th generation New Zealander has a child, they too should have the same rights as that Maori child. People cannot choose their parents.

 

The social problem here is not all Maori were treated fairly. And even the on-going settlements are wrong. There are many Maori out there who have been hard done by, there are also many Maori out there who have had wild ride. You could use the same argument about pakeha' as well.

 

 

I am not going to take part in racist conversation. 

 

 

I was wondering how long it would take until somebody pulled either the racist or bigot card.

 

Its time people realize that the treaty is causing more harm than good. We should be striving to become one country, not dwelling on the past or creating more racial separation. What happened to the NZ of the 80's when we use to fight this sort of discrimination, now we allow it to control us. Sometimes I think our democracy is so far behind, and other countries are now way ahead of us.

 

You can't fix the discrimination of the past by creating more discrimination. It all needs to end, then perhaps we call all move forward as a single nation.


 
 
 
 




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  # 1872992 26-Sep-2017 11:52
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MikeB4:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Winston will demand a referendum as these seats imo are well past their use by date. But it will be the people of N Z who decide if they stay or go. This may be devisive, but does need to happen. I don't understand the need for them..I never have, they are racist. The Maori people I know all vote on the main role and they call themselves NZers like most of us. Afterall what percentage are Maori again in our total population.

 

Its all part of us growing up as a nation. Time to consider Republicanism as well...as I am sure most wouldnt want Charlie as head of state.  

 

 

 

 

That is irrelevant Maori are the indigenous people of Aotearoa. 

 

 

and the people before them?

 

I agree that any disadvantaged people no matter what race should be getting the special attention they deserve to correct their situation eg housing, health or education. Just because you are Maori shouldnt give you special access to anything more than anybody else. I am NOT a racist, I just believe in 2017 we should all be treated the same. So many generations have now passed since the perceived unjustices. Only one government has attempted to correct this and that is now mostly done. We need to move on. Most of the Iwi that have settled with the Crown eg Ngai Tahu are becoming major Companies in NZ and this is where they have a social responsibility to their race. The Governments responsibility is to all NZers.

 

This recent election campaign has highlighted the need for more social responsibility by Government and all parties agree on that. But that should be irrespective of race.

 

Its clear to me that this is the main reason the Maori seats have no longer a role in NZ.


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  # 1872994 26-Sep-2017 11:53
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I am out of this discussion.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1873003 26-Sep-2017 12:06
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I think the argument, and it is what I happen to believe, is that Maori as a group are still institutionally disadvantaged in New Zealand and that is what entitles them to special treatment. The intention, at least, is to give them an extra boost in the hope of eventually overcoming that institutional discrimination.

 

'Equal' treatment would not really be equal because as a group, Maori are not yet treated equally. They sit at the bottom in all the statistics - poverty, employment, education, health, imprisonment. That is not being equal. Until those things are fixed, calling for equality across the board is disingenuous.

 

It should be up to Maori to decide when they want to give up their electorate seats. These have symbolic value and it is not the business of the rest of us to pass judgement on them. 

 

   





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1873007 26-Sep-2017 12:14
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@Rikkitic
I challenge you to provide a single example where "Maori as a group are still institutionally disadvantaged in Nee Zealand".

gzt

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  # 1873010 26-Sep-2017 12:20
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darylblake:I am so sick of Maori's getting free education etc. This went down over 150 years ago. If a Maori person I know has a kid, that kid can get cheap/free tertiary study,

Is this a fact? Please provide some reference for that.



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  # 1873012 26-Sep-2017 12:23
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Rikkitic:

 

I think the argument, and it is what I happen to believe, is that Maori as a group are still institutionally disadvantaged in New Zealand and that is what entitles them to special treatment. The intention, at least, is to give them an extra boost in the hope of eventually overcoming that institutional discrimination.

 

'Equal' treatment would not really be equal because as a group, Maori are not yet treated equally. They sit at the bottom in all the statistics - poverty, employment, education, health, imprisonment. That is not being equal. Until those things are fixed, calling for equality across the board is disingenuous.

 

It should be up to Maori to decide when they want to give up their electorate seats. These have symbolic value and it is not the business of the rest of us to pass judgement on them. 

 

   

 

 

FRom what I see and hear, Pacific Island people are not getting a fair deal. Its not up to a single group to decide how our democracy works. Its up to all of NZ.


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  # 1873020 26-Sep-2017 12:32
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Reciprocity: @Rikkitic
I challenge you to provide a single example where "Maori as a group are still institutionally disadvantaged in Nee Zealand".

 

I am not your Google bot. Just do a simple search. You do know how to search, don't you? 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1873030 26-Sep-2017 12:54
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Pumpedd:

 

FRom what I see and hear, Pacific Island people are not getting a fair deal. Its not up to a single group to decide how our democracy works. Its up to all of NZ.

 

 

That is a nice-sounding argument but all of NZ has had plenty of time to solve the problem and they haven't done it. When they do, then it will no longer be an issue.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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