Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
Lock him up!
10846 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1828998 25-Jul-2017 11:45
One person supports this post
Send private message

MikeAqua:

 

frankv:

 

 

 

You *can* selectively apply it [law], so long as there is ethical basis for what you do.

 

 

History has shown that we can't rely on ethics instead of law.  Ethics differ widely between cultures and individuals, and are highly subjective.

 

Many experiments and real life events have proven peoples' ethics to be highly flexible/optional and quickly surrendered in difficult situations.

 

The law and in particular criminal law, human rights law and (to a lesser extent) employment law generally reflect minimum standards of ethical behaviour.  They exclude particularly many particularly unacceptable behaviours and do so in a largely objective way.  They change over time to reflect societies views.

 

 

 

 

This is an intelligent comment and to an extent I agree. But I also believe in civil disobedience. Legislators often enact laws that are poorly thought out, have unintended consequences, or are simply evil. There are many, many examples of this, large and small. Unjust laws can be and should be challenged. That is the ethical response.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


Lock him up!
10846 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1829010 25-Jul-2017 11:53
2 people support this post
Send private message

Wiggum:

 

allio:

 

Thanks also for your declaration that no "honest/hardworking" kiwis (I presume you generously include yourself in this group?) could empathise with her situation. What does that make the rest of us, in your books? Go on, say it.

 

I stand by that statement. The election results will tell. Most honest/hardworking Kiwis dont want a fraudster in charge of social development. What a disaster! The election results will be the proof. Happy to retract this statement and admit I got it wrong after elections.

 

 

Some of us will hold you to that. I like the way the epithet 'hard-working' is always hauled out of the larder to describe the sweaty-browed, heavy lifting, square-jawed, steely-eyed iron-driving men (and women, of course) whose intense unceasing honest labour keep all those shameless welfare spongers afloat.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1829012 25-Jul-2017 11:57
One person supports this post
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

me of us will hold you to that. I like the way the epithet 'hard-working' is always hauled out of the larder to describe the sweaty-browed, heavy lifting, square-jawed, steely-eyed iron-driving men (and women, of course) whose intense unceasing honest labour keep all those shameless welfare spongers afloat.

 

 

For brevity I'd just call them "tax payers".

 

 




1199 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1829030 25-Jul-2017 12:32
Send private message

allio:

 

I'm fortunate that I'm not in a position where I have to decide between breaking the law and feeding my family. I have considerable empathy for those in that impossible situation. I have respect for someone who admits they had to break the law to survive and devotes the rest of their working life to trying to improve that situation so that others don't have to.

 

 

If she needed more money from WINZ all she needed to do was name the father of her kid.

 

She chose not to name the father, and decided to rather lie, and get less money.

 

She clearly did not need to break any law to "survive".

 

Besides, using the term "survive" has no ground. It takes very little to "survive". Ask the people in real poverty in Africa. I guess though your definition for "survival" is having petrol in the car, snacks in the cupboard, Sky TV etc.. My definition is simply no water and food to eat, and no structure over your head to keep the rain/cold out.

 

Breaking the law to steal a loaf of bread to "survive" will get my sympathy. PS a loaf of bread costs $1 in NZ today. There is NO EXCUSE to not being able to afford a loaf of bread.

 

 


Lock him up!
10846 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1829031 25-Jul-2017 12:35
One person supports this post
Send private message

Shouting isn't going to make people listen. Getting off your pompous high horse and engaging in serious debate might.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1829045 25-Jul-2017 12:56
One person supports this post
Send private message

Wiggum:

 

Breaking the law to steal a loaf of bread to "survive" will get my sympathy. PS a loaf of bread costs $1 in NZ today. There is NO EXCUSE to not being able to afford a loaf of bread.

 

 

This "survive" talk is a lame self justification attempt by Turei. Many beneficiaries have it much tougher than she did. Turei had one child, contact with the father, and a close mother who was a mayor and MP. Hardly at risk of not surviving. Compare to thousands of benefit mums who are getting by with multiple children and without a well-off parent, who are not resorting to fraud.

 

I believe MT is a materialistic poseur who wanted stuff she couldn't afford - just like many or most other fraudsters. 

 

 


615 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1829063 25-Jul-2017 13:34
2 people support this post
Send private message

Wiggum:

 

Sky TV

 

 

What is it with you right-wingers and Sky? I'm surprised you didn't go for the full beneficiary-bashing bingo with "a flat screen TV" and "the latest iPhone".

 

I'm done here, the latest posts from you and kryptonjohn make it very clear our worldviews don't align in any way and that's not likely to ever change. Thanks for the robust discussion.


 
 
 
 


14328 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1829067 25-Jul-2017 13:39
One person supports this post
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

Wiggum:

 

Breaking the law to steal a loaf of bread to "survive" will get my sympathy. PS a loaf of bread costs $1 in NZ today. There is NO EXCUSE to not being able to afford a loaf of bread.

 

 

This "survive" talk is a lame self justification attempt by Turei. Many beneficiaries have it much tougher than she did. Turei had one child, contact with the father, and a close mother who was a mayor and MP. Hardly at risk of not surviving. Compare to thousands of benefit mums who are getting by with multiple children and without a well-off parent, who are not resorting to fraud.

 

I believe MT is a materialistic poseur who wanted stuff she couldn't afford - just like many or most other fraudsters. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clearly you must have great insight into her personal financial circumstances at the time.... impressive.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


Lock him up!
10846 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1829072 25-Jul-2017 13:47
2 people support this post
Send private message

Comments like some of the above are very judgmental and based on nothing more than personal prejudice. I doubt people who say things like this have ever actually been really poor. I have, and I know what it feels like. I know how hard it can be. And I know it is much, much worse if you have a child and are in that situation.

 


I have a close friend who was exactly in that position a few years ago. She had two young girls and was trying to put herself through school while on benefit and gain a degree. If you want to talk about hard work, she was and is one of the hardest-working people I have ever known and she did eventually graduate, go to work and get off the benefit. Today she has her own business and owns three houses (and pays honest taxes on all of it).

 


Doing something like this is much, much harder than some of the smug self-satisfied types here could ever imagine. Especially if you have young children and cannot even afford to feed them properly. She did the best she could with what she had and her kids were never seriously deprived, but they sometimes had to get through an evening on baked beans and instant fizzy drink and occasionally not even that because money was so tight. They missed out on some school activities that she simply couldn’t afford though she was very creative at making sure they got to experience as much as possible. For example, she couldn’t pay for summer camp so she sent them to some that were run by conservative Christian groups. In place of payment the girls had their heads filled with religious propaganda, but they grew out of it and they were at least able to spend some of the time playing in the outdoors and just being kids. They actually managed to have pretty good childhoods, and I know because I was part of it, helping out where I could. And I can assure you that nothing makes you feel worse than the disappointment of your child when you have to tell her she can’t do something she really wants to because there just isn’t money for it.

 


Oh, and my friend also had reasonably well-off parents she was close to, and her family did help out, and it also makes you feel like utter crap when you have to keep going to them with your hand out so you don’t do it unless things are really desperate. Flippant comments about things like this demonstrate nothing but arrogant ignorance.

 


So where was the useless druggie father in all this, the so-superior moral high grounders demand to know? Well, actually he committed suicide, which was how the family got into this unhappy place to begin with.

 


People who are so quick to pass judgment on others rarely know their stories, or bother to find out. I don’t know anything about Metiria Turei’s family background, or her relationship with her parents, or the father of her child, or anything else, and I certainly would not presume to tell the world how it should be treating her. Some of you in the so-certain howling mob here really need to go away and think about things for awhile.

 

Oh, and they never had Sky either.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




1199 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1829081 25-Jul-2017 14:04
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

Comments like some of the above are very judgmental and based on nothing more than personal prejudice. I doubt people who say things like this have ever actually been really poor. I have, and I know what it feels like. I know how hard it can be. And I know it is much, much worse if you have a child and are in that situation.

 


I have a close friend who was exactly in that position a few years ago. She had two young girls and was trying to put herself through school while on benefit and gain a degree. If you want to talk about hard work, she was and is one of the hardest-working people I have ever known and she did eventually graduate, go to work and get off the benefit. Today she has her own business and owns three houses (and pays honest taxes on all of it).

 


Doing something like this is much, much harder than some of the smug self-satisfied types here could ever imagine. Especially if you have young children and cannot even afford to feed them properly. She did the best she could with what she had and her kids were never seriously deprived, but they sometimes had to get through an evening on baked beans and instant fizzy drink and occasionally not even that because money was so tight. They missed out on some school activities that she simply couldn’t afford though she was very creative at making sure they got to experience as much as possible. For example, she couldn’t pay for summer camp so she sent them to some that were run by conservative Christian groups. In place of payment the girls had their heads filled with religious propaganda, but they grew out of it and they were at least able to spend some of the time playing in the outdoors and just being kids. They actually managed to have pretty good childhoods, and I know because I was part of it, helping out where I could. And I can assure you that nothing makes you feel worse than the disappointment of your child when you have to tell her she can’t do something she really wants to because there just isn’t money for it.

 


Oh, and my friend also had reasonably well-off parents she was close to, and her family did help out, and it also makes you feel like utter crap when you have to keep going to them with your hand out so you don’t do it unless things are really desperate. Flippant comments about things like this demonstrate nothing but arrogant ignorance.

 


So where was the useless druggie father in all this, the so-superior moral high grounders demand to know? Well, actually he committed suicide, which was how the family got into this unhappy place to begin with.

 


People who are so quick to pass judgment on others rarely know their stories, or bother to find out. I don’t know anything about Metiria Turei’s family background, or her relationship with her parents, or the father of her child, or anything else, and I certainly would not presume to tell the world how it should be treating her. Some of you in the so-certain howling mob here really need to go away and think about things for awhile.

 

Oh, and they never had Sky either.

 

 

You describing poor people. Big difference to poor people, and people struggling to "survive". The above is far from "struggling to survive".

 

I am not going to even entertain your wall of text. What I will say though is that you have passed judgement on myself, as well as many other people on this forum. Especially those that have a different view from your own. Practice what you preach!


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1829086 25-Jul-2017 14:10
One person supports this post
Send private message

None of the above emotionalism escapes this fact: MT was in better off situation than thousands of beneficiary mums who were not fraudsters.

 

Don't need any "great insight" to know this.

 

Rikkitic, you have no idea about me nor how poor I have been. You throw out stuff like "smug self-satisfied" and "moral high grounders" then criticise people for being quick to pass judgement.

 

Pure hypocrisy.

 

Just like MT demanding others resign for their misdemeanors.

 

 

 

 

 

 




1199 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1829087 25-Jul-2017 14:11
Send private message

MikeB4:

 

Clearly you must have great insight into her personal financial circumstances at the time.... impressive.

 

 

She was not "struggling to survive".

 

There is more to this story, the truth will come out. Hopefully before elections. Either way though it does not really matter, the credibility of the Greens has gone out of the window. Not because of what she may be guilty of, but because of her arrogance, and her clear entitlement attitude.


Lock him up!
10846 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1829089 25-Jul-2017 14:16
Send private message

You two can massage each other. I have had it with this thread. Maybe you will grow up one day.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1829091 25-Jul-2017 14:18
3 people support this post
Send private message

Can't argue on facts, call people names, throw your toys on the floor and stomp off? If that's being 'grown up' I'll pass, thanks all the same.

 

 


4185 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  # 1829119 25-Jul-2017 14:42
9 people support this post
Send private message

There is a recent trend here on GZ to have many threads with a political aspect to be hijacked by relatively new members who typically are of a relatively far right persuasion. This thread is a perfect example.

 

Their politics aren't so much an issue with me, but rather it's the dogmatic, strident and even angry tone in which their views are spewed forth; further, many posts appear to simply be trolling to elicit a bite from someone. The more nuanced discussions that have been possible in the past amongst members with a wide variety of perspectives seem to get side-tracked or simply peter out as, one-by-one, other members get tired of the same old back-and-forth where there's always lots of smoke but little fire,.

 

I don't think anyone's perspectives or views are going to be changed by this kind of dialogue, and I for one am really tired of it - my guess is, though, given it's election year this is going to continue for the next few months at least... Guess it's time to stay away from these types of "off topic threads!


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Chorus to launch Hyperfibre service
Posted 18-Nov-2019 15:00


Microsoft launches first Experience Center worldwide for Asia Pacific in Singapore
Posted 13-Nov-2019 13:08


Disney+ comes to LG Smart TVs
Posted 13-Nov-2019 12:55


Spark launches new wireless broadband "Unplan Metro"
Posted 11-Nov-2019 08:19


Malwarebytes overhauls flagship product with new UI, faster engine and lighter footprint
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:48


CarbonClick launches into Digital Marketplaces
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:42


Kordia offers Microsoft Azure Peering Service
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:41


Spark 5G live on Auckland Harbour for Emirates Team New Zealand
Posted 4-Nov-2019 17:30


BNZ and Vodafone partner to boost NZ Tech for SME
Posted 31-Oct-2019 17:14


Nokia 7.2 available in New Zealand
Posted 31-Oct-2019 16:24


2talk launches Microsoft Teams Direct Routing product
Posted 29-Oct-2019 10:35


New Breast Cancer Foundation app puts power in Kiwi women's hands
Posted 25-Oct-2019 16:13


OPPO Reno2 Series lands, alongside hybrid noise-cancelling Wireless Headphones
Posted 24-Oct-2019 15:32


Waikato Data Scientists awarded $13 million from the Government
Posted 24-Oct-2019 15:27


D-Link launches Wave 2 Unified Access Points
Posted 24-Oct-2019 15:07



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.