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  # 1827449 23-Jul-2017 09:33
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You can only include those who are legally ordinarily resident or those with NZ citizenship.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1827450 23-Jul-2017 09:35
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Or what about the ‘grey nomads’ the rising population of retiree baby boomers who often sell up to travel, and live in (often luxury) MotorHomes for the most time in NZ... some flit over to America and Europe during our winter, others ‘park up’ with family, and others just ‘gear up’ and have diesel heating and CrackerJack fireplaces in their Motorhome/Caravan/5th wheelers.

Would they not also be in this undefined ‘homeless’ category?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=11452439

 
 
 
 


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  # 1827454 23-Jul-2017 09:46
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MikeB4: You can only include those who are legally ordinarily resident or those with NZ citizenship.

 

So there are no homeless kiwis living in Aus then?

 

But I agree, we should not be counting non NZ residents, those without residence, visa over stayers, tourists etc.

 

My gut tells me that a vast percentage of "homeless" in NZ fall into the above category.


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  # 1827456 23-Jul-2017 09:50
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PhantomNVD: Or what about the ‘grey nomads’ the rising population of retiree baby boomers who often sell up to travel, and live in (often luxury) MotorHomes for the most time in NZ... some flit over to America and Europe during our winter, others ‘park up’ with family, and others just ‘gear up’ and have diesel heating and CrackerJack fireplaces in their Motorhome/Caravan/5th wheelers.

Would they not also be in this undefined ‘homeless’ category?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=11452439

 

Off course! :-) 

 

Im just going to our old place to do some DIY before we sell. So Im half homeless given the house is not occupied by me!


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  # 1827459 23-Jul-2017 10:01
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Wiggum:

 

My gut tells me that a vast percentage of "homeless" in NZ fall into the above category.

 

 

Your gut also seems to tell you there is little or no deprivation in New Zealand, that people sleeping rough want to, that parents who can't feed their kids are worthless layabouts spending their overgenerous benefits on grog and tobacco, that Maori are an overprivileged elite shamelessly exploiting an undemocratic political system and anyone who needs help just has to go out and get a job cleaning toilets. Maybe your gut needs a dose of reality.

 

 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




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  # 1827460 23-Jul-2017 10:01
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"Over half of New Zealand's homeless are under 25. One quarter are children."

 

That charity seems to have some credibility.

 

But no - why not continue to pretend that the issue doesn't even exist - by arguing about methodology of data collection - then suggesting that most of the homeless are "happy and homeless".

 

 


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  # 1827498 23-Jul-2017 10:39
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OOI: There are some extremely wealthy people in NZ. In the US it is common for wealthy people to make quite serious donations, set up foundations and so forth in relation to social issues.

 

I'm interested to find out whether any of the private wealthy citizens of NZ are trying to assist significantly with the issue under discussion. Does anyone know?

 

 

 

(Note - by wealthy I mean people with tens or hundred of millions, not people who earn over $100k!)






 
 
 
 


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  # 1827500 23-Jul-2017 10:51
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Geektastic:

 

I listened to something on RNZ the other day, an interview with a lady who works with the homeless. She said that quite a lot of them were 'intentionally' homeless and that when they were provided with alternatives they would often reappear on the streets within days.

 

I have no idea why that is.

 

However, if the people truly do not want to live in houses etc (and to be honest, how would they pay rent etc?) I think we could throw up large dormitories based on industrial sheds (to keep the design simple and the cost reasonable) and then allow them to stay there. Even in NZ it ought to be possible to build such things relatively quickly.

 

 

Mental health.

 

Even if  building these dormitories was a good idea, which I certainly don't believe it is, where could you even put them with the typical NZ NIMBY attitude?


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  # 1827504 23-Jul-2017 11:03
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mattwnz: 

 

They are 1 million dollar houses, but more than half of that costs is for all the land regulations. Source http://www.interest.co.nz/property/88883/government-says-land-use-regulation-blame-56%C2%A0-cost-average-house-auckland 

 

The government are blaming things such as rising rent costs for the problems, but that then shows a flaw with the current free market system.

 

 

Quite the opposite. It shows that the demand is there that could be met by the free market but we essentially don't have one - we have excessive local government interference and bureaucracy stifling the market and driving up costs needlessly.


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  # 1827516 23-Jul-2017 11:31
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mattwnz:

You are right that it is a housing issue, and there not being enough houses. So the government needs to answer why they keep bringing more and more people into nz, when we don have enough houses to house our current population.

 

Well, that's a very easy question to answer but one they won't admit to. Immigration gives the illusion of a thriving economy.


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  # 1827575 23-Jul-2017 13:19
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Wiggum:

MikeB4: You can only include those who are legally ordinarily resident or those with NZ citizenship.


So there are no homeless kiwis living in Aus then?


But I agree, we should not be counting non NZ residents, those without residence, visa over stayers, tourists etc.


My gut tells me that a vast percentage of "homeless" in NZ fall into the above category.



Your gut is telling you porkies




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1827578 23-Jul-2017 13:29
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cadman:

mattwnz:

You are right that it is a housing issue, and there not being enough houses. So the government needs to answer why they keep bringing more and more people into nz, when we don have enough houses to house our current population.


Well, that's a very easy question to answer but one they won't admit to. Immigration gives the illusion of a thriving economy.



Yeah. A pity the opposition haven't really pressed this point. Maybe that is due to the poor state of our media these days. The problem is that pumping up the population also requires a significant amount of money to be spent on infrastructure, and things like extra hospitals and schooling in the future. I am not sure that health spending for example has gone up enough to cover the increase in inflow of people. At some stage down the track it will come back to bite us, as we play catchup.

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  # 1827585 23-Jul-2017 13:56
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cadman:

 

Geektastic:

 

I listened to something on RNZ the other day, an interview with a lady who works with the homeless. She said that quite a lot of them were 'intentionally' homeless and that when they were provided with alternatives they would often reappear on the streets within days.

 

I have no idea why that is.

 

However, if the people truly do not want to live in houses etc (and to be honest, how would they pay rent etc?) I think we could throw up large dormitories based on industrial sheds (to keep the design simple and the cost reasonable) and then allow them to stay there. Even in NZ it ought to be possible to build such things relatively quickly.

 

 

Mental health.

 

Even if  building these dormitories was a good idea, which I certainly don't believe it is, where could you even put them with the typical NZ NIMBY attitude?

 

 

 

 

It may not be a permanent solution, but surely better than sleeping on a park bench in the rain? Could be used for overflow accommodation for international sports events or sold on as commercial buildings when no longer required.

 

That's the problem - for some reason, every man and his dog in NZ thinks his opinion matters and there is far too little autocracy, so nothing gets done.

 

If the government decided to build such things, they just send Compulsory Purchase notices, acquire the land and start building. Of course, they won't do that - they'll "consult communities" for 10 years and then do SFA. If you want things done, then the 'communities' need to be told to suck it up and boil their heads if they don't agree.






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  # 1827593 23-Jul-2017 15:10
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Geektastic:

 

cadman:

 

Geektastic:

 

I listened to something on RNZ the other day, an interview with a lady who works with the homeless. She said that quite a lot of them were 'intentionally' homeless and that when they were provided with alternatives they would often reappear on the streets within days.

 

I have no idea why that is.

 

However, if the people truly do not want to live in houses etc (and to be honest, how would they pay rent etc?) I think we could throw up large dormitories based on industrial sheds (to keep the design simple and the cost reasonable) and then allow them to stay there. Even in NZ it ought to be possible to build such things relatively quickly.

 

 

Mental health.

 

Even if  building these dormitories was a good idea, which I certainly don't believe it is, where could you even put them with the typical NZ NIMBY attitude?

 

 

 

 

It may not be a permanent solution, but surely better than sleeping on a park bench in the rain? Could be used for overflow accommodation for international sports events or sold on as commercial buildings when no longer required.

 

That's the problem - for some reason, every man and his dog in NZ thinks his opinion matters and there is far too little autocracy, so nothing gets done.

 

If the government decided to build such things, they just send Compulsory Purchase notices, acquire the land and start building. Of course, they won't do that - they'll "consult communities" for 10 years and then do SFA. If you want things done, then the 'communities' need to be told to suck it up and boil their heads if they don't agree.

 

 

Trouble is that putting too many of those people in one place along with their mental health, and in many cases addiction, issues is a recipe for disaster.


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  # 1827606 23-Jul-2017 15:39
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Geektastic:

 

However, if the people truly do not want to live in houses etc (and to be honest, how would they pay rent etc?) I think we could throw up large dormitories based on industrial sheds (to keep the design simple and the cost reasonable) and then allow them to stay there. Even in NZ it ought to be possible to build such things relatively quickly.

 

 

Rather than 'industrial sheds' full of homeless people why not help fund new and modern Marae?

 

Existing Marae are often under resourced, and yet (with help from Social agencies) both Te Puea with "Manaaki Tangata" and Manurewa with "Whakapiki Ora" stepped up and began taking people off the streets.
But without continuing Ministry of Social Development support and with many other commitments they both got overwhelmed and gave up their programmes.

 

I think traditional charitable trusts such as City Mission, or lodges run by the Salvation Army - that still shoulder much of that role, are operating in the face of a decline - likely to continue in our more secular world – of religion based charities in general.
And even if religion is not foisted directly on you when using their facilities - it's still lurking in the background.

 

cadman:

 

Even if  building these dormitories was a good idea, which I certainly don't believe it is, where could you even put them with the typical NZ NIMBY attitude?

 

 

Yes, surely a big part of the problem.
Look at what happened when Ngati Paoa tried to build 300 new houses - 40% of which were to be affordable, or social housing - and a marae.
The development - partly on underutilized sports fields - in what looked like (to me) a well though out and environmentally sensitive plan was slammed. NIMBY ism ruled.


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