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1199 posts

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  # 1836317 3-Aug-2017 10:15
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Rikkitic:

 

Who should I vote for?

 

 

Here are some questions I have for you which may help you on deciding who to vote for. Try answering them in as few sentences as possible.

 

- Should the distribution of wealth be decided by a select group, or by the masses?

 

- Should people work if taxpayers/government can afford to pay them to do nothing?

 

- How do you define freedom?

 

- What do you believe the purpose of government is? 

 

- To what extent should a person be able to own private property?


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  # 1836359 3-Aug-2017 10:54
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Rikkitic:

 

I think that costs the taxpayers a lot more than benefit fraud, as does tax fraud, which you would have learned if you had bothered reading all of the link I provided. 

 

 

Stealing is taking something that you are not entitled to/ is not yours.

 

Benefit fraud = stealing out of a money pot (that money does not belong to you, it belongs to taxpayers/government).

 

Tax Fraud = hiding money, either legitimately (via loopholes in the tax system, using a smart consultant etc.. perfectly legal), or not declaring incomes. Either way, nothing is really stolen, because you have not taken anything from the money pot. The definition of stealing is to "take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.". If you are implying that tax fraud is stealing, then you are very wrong. Nothing has been stolen.

 

The only time Tax Fraud = Stealing and Benefit Fraud will be if one is falsely making claims to IRD. Ie, at the end of the year you making false declarations in an effort to receive payments from IRD (stealing from a money pot). Worming your way out of paying tax (putting money into the pot) is not a crime. The cartoonist failed to see this too.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1836373 3-Aug-2017 11:11
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Wiggum:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I think that costs the taxpayers a lot more than benefit fraud, as does tax fraud, which you would have learned if you had bothered reading all of the link I provided. 

 

 

Stealing is taking something that you are not entitled to/ is not yours.

 

Benefit fraud = stealing out of a money pot (that money does not belong to you, it belongs to taxpayers/government).

 

Tax Fraud = hiding money, either legitimately (via loopholes in the tax system, using a smart consultant etc.. perfectly legal), or not declaring incomes. Either way, nothing is really stolen, because you have not taken anything from the money pot. The definition of stealing is to "take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.". If you are implying that tax fraud is stealing, then you are very wrong. Nothing has been stolen.

 

The only time Tax Fraud = Stealing and Benefit Fraud will be if one is falsely making claims to IRD. Ie, at the end of the year you making false declarations in an effort to receive payments from IRD (stealing from a money pot). Worming your way out of paying tax (putting money into the pot) is not a crime. The cartoonist failed to see this too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are confused. Tax fraud is fraud and by definition illegal. I believe you are meaning tax avoidance with can be illegal or legal depending on what you are doing. Not paying tax you legally required to pay is a crime.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


1199 posts

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  # 1836380 3-Aug-2017 11:18
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MikeB4:

 

I think you are confused. Tax fraud is fraud and by definition illegal. I believe you are meaning tax avoidance with can be illegal or legal depending on what you are doing. Not paying tax you legally required to pay is a crime.

 

 

I'm referring to the comic.

 

And the crime of "wealthy white guys worming their way out of paying tax..." The comic talks about "Stolen" in Tax Revenue. The comic is actually saying that "tax avoidance" is stealing, but thats far from the truth. 

 

Tax fraud is a crime, but that too does not always fit the definition of stealing.




Lock him up!
11154 posts

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  # 1836629 3-Aug-2017 15:15
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Wiggum:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Who should I vote for?

 

 

Here are some questions I have for you which may help you on deciding who to vote for. Try answering them in as few sentences as possible.

 

- Should the distribution of wealth be decided by a select group, or by the masses?

 

- Should people work if taxpayers/government can afford to pay them to do nothing?

 

- How do you define freedom?

 

- What do you believe the purpose of government is? 

 

- To what extent should a person be able to own private property?

 

 

I cannot answer your questions properly in just a few words. That would require a lengthy essay and more trouble than I feel like going to. But I will think about it and see what I can come up with.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




Lock him up!
11154 posts

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  # 1836632 3-Aug-2017 15:20
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

 

I think you are confused. Tax fraud is fraud and by definition illegal. I believe you are meaning tax avoidance with can be illegal or legal depending on what you are doing. Not paying tax you legally required to pay is a crime.

 

 

I'm referring to the comic.

 

And the crime of "wealthy white guys worming their way out of paying tax..." The comic talks about "Stolen" in Tax Revenue. The comic is actually saying that "tax avoidance" is stealing, but thats far from the truth. 

 

Tax fraud is a crime, but that too does not always fit the definition of stealing.

 

 

If you use lies or other mechanisms to avoid paying tax you would otherwise owe, then you are depriving everyone else of the benefit of that missing income. Maybe the government has to borrow more to make up the deficit, or certain projects don't get funded. That meets my definition of stealing. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




Lock him up!
11154 posts

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  # 1836712 3-Aug-2017 16:40
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Wiggum:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Who should I vote for?

 

 

Here are some questions I have for you which may help you on deciding who to vote for. Try answering them in as few sentences as possible.

 

- Should the distribution of wealth be decided by a select group, or by the masses?

 

- Should people work if taxpayers/government can afford to pay them to do nothing?

 

- How do you define freedom?

 

- What do you believe the purpose of government is? 

 

- To what extent should a person be able to own private property?

 

 

 

 

Okay, I have thought about it. Here are my answers, bearing in mind the constraints of keeping it brief:

 

 

 

- Depends on your definition of ‘select group’ and ‘masses’ but I wouldn’t go with either. It should be decided by an economic system that is equitable and fair and works in such a way that people are rewarded for their     abilities but no-one is forced to live like a 16th-century peasant.

 

- Only if they want to. If society can afford to support them anyway then there is no need for them to work.

 

- I define freedom as freedom from want. If you do not have food to eat, or the shelter of a home, or money to clothe your children, you are not free.

 

- The purpose of government is to curb the excesses of human nature. Without enforceable authority, the weak become the food of the strong.

 

- As is the case today, one’s home should be one’s castle, but I do not see a need for private individuals to lay exclusive claim to huge swaths of the countryside.





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


1199 posts

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  # 1843032 9-Aug-2017 20:28
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tdgeek:

 

Wiggum:

 

caminham:

 

 

 

I think this election could get interesting today.

 

 

Its just more noise and instability from the left. The Greens have blown it by keeping Metiria Turei and all her drama. Now labour is in the process of blowing it because they lack a leader.

 

 

 

 

Greens are 15% on the polls,. their highest ever, you need to keep up to date so that you dont post inaccurate comments.

 

 

And the new polls are out. Greens plummet to 8.3% in poll. 

 

I stand by my earlier statement. The Greens blew it by keeping Metiria Turei.


309 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1843288 10-Aug-2017 09:32
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Regardless of who we vote for I believe  Ministers of whatever political party take advice of the heads of the various department when making policy. They (the elected party) may put pressure on these heads to change policy to their particular way of thinking to get change but I don’t believe that any person coming from a unrelated working background (school teacher Lawyer farmer etc) has the knowledge to control a particular ministry without experience in that field.
Therefore it is my belief that a change of political approach after several years (2-3 elections) is a good thing for any country. This way the left and the right can be catered for.
We the consumers are the ones who pay for the salaries and the wages and benefits to all whether they are Lawyer, Doctors, property developers, investors, nurses teachers rubbish collectors etc.etc.
We all need each other
A balance needs to be kept to ensure that the gap between the rich and the poor does not widen any further otherwise who knows what will happen. Look overseas at countries where there are huge gaps between the rich and the poor.
I believe it’s time for a change to balance things up a bit. In two or three elections time we may need another change to keep the balance


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  # 1843540 10-Aug-2017 13:27
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gulfa:

 

Regardless of who we vote for I believe  Ministers of whatever political party take advice of the heads of the various department when making policy. They (the elected party) may put pressure on these heads to change policy to their particular way of thinking to get change but I don’t believe that any person coming from a unrelated working background (school teacher Lawyer farmer etc) has the knowledge to control a particular ministry without experience in that field.
Therefore it is my belief that a change of political approach after several years (2-3 elections) is a good thing for any country. This way the left and the right can be catered for.
We the consumers are the ones who pay for the salaries and the wages and benefits to all whether they are Lawyer, Doctors, property developers, investors, nurses teachers rubbish collectors etc.etc.
We all need each other
A balance needs to be kept to ensure that the gap between the rich and the poor does not widen any further otherwise who knows what will happen. Look overseas at countries where there are huge gaps between the rich and the poor.
I believe it’s time for a change to balance things up a bit. In two or three elections time we may need another change to keep the balance

 

 

And the good thing is, the main parties are centre left and centre right, so that's a stable outlook.  


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  # 1845302 11-Aug-2017 17:18
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Interesting comparisons of Election results and opinion poll results. The figures are very close

 

 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95682903/political-polls-explained-the-how-the-why-and-the-what-does-it-take





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


9011 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1845306 11-Aug-2017 17:32
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MikeB4:

 

Interesting comparisons of Election results and opinion poll results. The figures are very close

 

 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95682903/political-polls-explained-the-how-the-why-and-the-what-does-it-take

 

 

Golly.  Winston's a consistent over-achiever.


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  # 1845308 11-Aug-2017 17:34
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Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

 

Interesting comparisons of Election results and opinion poll results. The figures are very close

 

 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95682903/political-polls-explained-the-how-the-why-and-the-what-does-it-take

 

 

Golly.  Winston's a consistent over-achiever.

 

 

 

 

Yep just like the Phoenix 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


9011 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1845385 11-Aug-2017 21:05
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MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

 

Interesting comparisons of Election results and opinion poll results. The figures are very close

 

 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95682903/political-polls-explained-the-how-the-why-and-the-what-does-it-take

 

 

Golly.  Winston's a consistent over-achiever.

 

 

 

 

Yep just like the Phoenix 

 

 

But the Phoenix arose from the ashes - not an ash tray.


14574 posts

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  # 1845396 11-Aug-2017 21:39
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Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

 

Interesting comparisons of Election results and opinion poll results. The figures are very close

 

 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95682903/political-polls-explained-the-how-the-why-and-the-what-does-it-take

 

 

Golly.  Winston's a consistent over-achiever.

 

 

 

 

Yep just like the Phoenix 

 

 

But the Phoenix arose from the ashes - not an ash tray.

 

 

I was thinking about the Wellington Phoenix..... always trying never getting theretongue-out





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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