Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21
14323 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1855359 30-Aug-2017 16:22
Send private message

Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

Why did you add in "beneficiary fraudster" ? Nitpicking? Or want to avoid the other dodgy/illegal/denied?  Your bias is overwhelming you

 

 

Because benefit fraudsters are the lowest of the lot. 

 

 

Where would you place a tax fraudster?





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 




Lock him up!
10831 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1855381 30-Aug-2017 16:44
Send private message

I would place a tax fraudster a lot lower than a benefit one. The amounts involved are usually considerably more and the betrayal of trust is considerably greater. No-one rips off the poor, hard-working taxpayer more than a tax fraudster. A benefit fraudster compared to that is like a shoplifter compared to an armed robber. Of course, most tax fraudsters are white businesspeople who wear suits and probably went to good schools, so of course they are just misguided souls, not the brimstone-exhaling evil incarnate that is the terrible, terrible benefit fraudster (who may happen to be brown).

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 




Lock him up!
10831 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1855397 30-Aug-2017 16:51
Send private message

 

 

"Lisa Marriott’s work shows that welfare fraud amounts to $30.6 million per annum, which is not insignificant. However it is nothing compared to government losses from tax avoidance. The Inland Revenue Department costs this at a bare minimum of $1.2 billion annually, although it admits that it may potentially be many times that."

 

My emphasis added. Don't let your prejudices get in the way of reality.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


14323 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1855403 30-Aug-2017 16:58
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

"Lisa Marriott’s work shows that welfare fraud amounts to $30.6 million per annum, which is not insignificant. However it is nothing compared to government losses from tax avoidance. The Inland Revenue Department costs this at a bare minimum of $1.2 billion annually, although it admits that it may potentially be many times that."

 

My emphasis added. Don't let your prejudices get in the way of reality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have written in the past on GZ that Benefit fraud/abuse is low in NZ. Some of it organised, some of it because of substance abuse, some of it by mistake,  most of it out of desperation.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 




Lock him up!
10831 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1855406 30-Aug-2017 17:00
Send private message

Some people would rather believe that it is the result of low-lifes too lazy and morally degenerate to get a job to fund their drugs and alcohol and tobacco.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


18338 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1855421 30-Aug-2017 17:40
Send private message

Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

Why did you add in "beneficiary fraudster" ? Nitpicking? Or want to avoid the other dodgy/illegal/denied?  Your bias is overwhelming you

 

 

Because benefit fraudsters are the lowest of the lot. 

 

 

Dont you mean so you can pick on non National dodgy dealings? Correct. Because you cherry pick your arguments




Lock him up!
10831 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1855425 30-Aug-2017 17:56
Send private message

He doesn't cherry-pick. He just makes things up and then presents them as fact. That is why I have decided to stop engaging with him. You can't have a sensible debate with someone who does that.

 

To shift the subject slightly, I am not in favour of any kind of fraud, whether benefit or tax. But I am also not in favour of relentlessly pounding on someone because of something they did when they were young and foolish. Anyone who is even a little bit normal has done things when they were young and foolish that they wish they hadn't later in life. I think Metiria Turei has been a capable and responsible MP and party leader. At least I am not aware of anything to the contrary. I think she did the correct and necessary thing when she resigned as party leader. Her position was no longer tenable. Whether she should resign as an MP depends on her own and her party's assessment, and on whether or not she gets prosecuted for anything. Beyond that, it is up to the judgment of the voters. It is not up to a rabid minority who just can't get enough of her blood.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


1743 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1855483 30-Aug-2017 20:11
Send private message

Rikkitic:. Anyone who is even a little bit normal has done things when they were young and foolish that they wish they hadn't later in life.

 

 

That's a signficat point.  If MT had given the appearance that she regretted doing what she did, people may have been easier on her.  But she just came across as smug and entitled.  




Lock him up!
10831 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1855493 30-Aug-2017 20:36
Send private message

I think different people take away different things, depending on their point of view. My interpretation (which could of course be wrong) was that she didn't show contrition because she was trying to make a bigger point about deprivation and being stuck in a poverty trap by unfair and unreasonable regulations. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


1199 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1855516 30-Aug-2017 21:22
Send private message

shk292:

 

Rikkitic:. Anyone who is even a little bit normal has done things when they were young and foolish that they wish they hadn't later in life.

 

 

That's a signficat point.  If MT had given the appearance that she regretted doing what she did, people may have been easier on her.  But she just came across as smug and entitled.  

 

 

And this is one of my top gripes with her too.

 

All the other so called "tax thieves" have all at least apologized, and paid back what was owed. Those that did not, have mostly sat time in jail. Not this woman though.

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

I have written in the past on GZ that Benefit fraud/abuse is low in NZ. Some of it organised, some of it because of substance abuse, some of it by mistake,  most of it out of desperation.

 

 

How can you be sure its low?

 

The only benefit frauds we know about are the ones that are caught out. In Turei case nobody would ever have known about it. Then there is somebody else who Turei knows about who has done the same thing, who she is refusing to report. Both cases would not be part of any benefit/fraud abuse stats.

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

Where would you place a tax fraudster?

 

 

What is a tax fraudster? A person using loopholes to legally pay less tax is IMO not a tax fraudster.

 

A person lying on a tax return however is. But even in this case, this person has only lied to pay less tax, not lied to receive anything (take from others). Its debatable if he/she is actually stealing anything, they in fact just paying less tax (dishonestly). Nothing is stolen from other honest taxpayers. In the case of benefit fraud, money is physically stolen/removed dishonestly from the taxpayers pot.

 

 


18338 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1855527 30-Aug-2017 21:36
One person supports this post
Send private message

Wiggum:

 

 

 

What is a tax fraudster? A person using loopholes to legally pay less tax is IMO not a tax fraudster.

 

A person lying on a tax return however is. But even in this case, this person has only lied to pay less tax, not lied to receive anything (take from others). Its debatable if he/she is actually stealing anything, they in fact just paying less tax (dishonestly). Nothing is stolen from other honest taxpayers. In the case of benefit fraud, money is physically stolen/removed dishonestly from the taxpayers pot.

 

 

 

 

Tax fraud is not tax avoidance. I dont know why you mention tax avoidance, when Mike specifically said tax fraud (ster)

 

You told me that not getting your tax cuts, is a tax increase. Now you're saying that a person can lie to pay less tax as they arent taking from others??? They are taking the tax that I paid, off their tax return. Taking directly from the Govt and indirectly from me.

 

So tax fraud is not stealing?

 

Tax not paid due to tax fraud, which is illegal, is taking from the taxpayers pot.


1199 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1855530 30-Aug-2017 21:43
Send private message

tdgeek:

 

Tax fraud is not tax avoidance. I dont know why you mention tax avoidance, when Mike specifically said tax fraud (ster)

 

Many people confuse the two. Thats why I asked.

 

tdgeek: So tax fraud is not stealing?

 

Tax not paid due to tax fraud, which is illegal, is taking from the taxpayers pot.

 

 

If the money is not in the pot to begin with, please explain how it fits the definition of stealing?

 

 


18338 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1855608 31-Aug-2017 07:54
Send private message

Was the Great Debate not televised?


18338 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1855625 31-Aug-2017 08:37
Send private message

Ok, I guess not. the leaders debate is 7pm on ONE tonight. 


14323 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1855630 31-Aug-2017 08:41
Send private message

Not going to watch it with Hoskings "moderating"





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


1 | ... | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Chorus to launch Hyperfibre service
Posted 18-Nov-2019 15:00


Microsoft launches first Experience Center worldwide for Asia Pacific in Singapore
Posted 13-Nov-2019 13:08


Disney+ comes to LG Smart TVs
Posted 13-Nov-2019 12:55


Spark launches new wireless broadband "Unplan Metro"
Posted 11-Nov-2019 08:19


Malwarebytes overhauls flagship product with new UI, faster engine and lighter footprint
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:48


CarbonClick launches into Digital Marketplaces
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:42


Kordia offers Microsoft Azure Peering Service
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:41


Spark 5G live on Auckland Harbour for Emirates Team New Zealand
Posted 4-Nov-2019 17:30


BNZ and Vodafone partner to boost NZ Tech for SME
Posted 31-Oct-2019 17:14


Nokia 7.2 available in New Zealand
Posted 31-Oct-2019 16:24


2talk launches Microsoft Teams Direct Routing product
Posted 29-Oct-2019 10:35


New Breast Cancer Foundation app puts power in Kiwi women's hands
Posted 25-Oct-2019 16:13


OPPO Reno2 Series lands, alongside hybrid noise-cancelling Wireless Headphones
Posted 24-Oct-2019 15:32


Waikato Data Scientists awarded $13 million from the Government
Posted 24-Oct-2019 15:27


D-Link launches Wave 2 Unified Access Points
Posted 24-Oct-2019 15:07



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.