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Wiggum
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  #1841166 8-Aug-2017 14:24
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allio:

 

And Metiria didn't vote twice in the same election - where on earth did you get that from?

 

 

I misunderstood her election fraud crime then. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Back to topic. Is not liking the woman reason enough to want to see her fall? I don't like her, she has no idea what real poverty is. The woman got a taxpayer funded law degree for petes sake, this is while she was "pleading poverty". She continues to get a $180k salary also from taxpayers!

 

Little Miss piggy has had her snout in the trough for far too long. She needs to go.

 

allio:New topic - that's up to the moderators, but I think the current PM being guilty of the same "offence" as Metiria is sufficiently on point.

 

Actually the FUG says we need to keep to topic.


allio
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  #1841170 8-Aug-2017 14:29
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Wiggum:

 

Back to topic. Is not liking the woman reason enough to want to see her fall? I don't like her, she has no idea what real poverty is. The woman got a taxpayer funded law degree for petes sake, this is while she was "pleading poverty"

 

That's fine. I mean I couldn't disagree more, but you're absolutely entitled to hold that view.

 

I just wanted to provide a little context for those who have fallen into the trap of thinking that "electoral fraud" is a) the crime of the century, and b) something unique to Metiria. It is in fact something mundane and probably ubiquitous.

 

Little Miss piggy has had her snout in the trough for far too long. She needs to go.

 

Fan of Whale Oil, per chance? tongue-out


Pumpedd
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  #1841187 8-Aug-2017 14:46
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allio:

 

Wiggum:

 

Back to topic. Is not liking the woman reason enough to want to see her fall? I don't like her, she has no idea what real poverty is. The woman got a taxpayer funded law degree for petes sake, this is while she was "pleading poverty"

 

That's fine. I mean I couldn't disagree more, but you're absolutely entitled to hold that view.

 

I just wanted to provide a little context for those who have fallen into the trap of thinking that "electoral fraud" is a) the crime of the century, and b) something unique to Metiria. It is in fact something mundane and probably ubiquitous.

 

Little Miss piggy has had her snout in the trough for far too long. She needs to go.

 

Fan of Whale Oil, per chance? tongue-out

 

 

Her fraud is a crime as she confessed. Because its historic she will not be prosecuted, but this is quite different to Bill English.

 

She is leader of a political party and has confessed to two crimes, one of them fraud, and as such she should be removed from her caucus as would happen in Labour or National. It is disgusting. She has called for member resignations for things far less serious than this.

 

I was seriously thinking of voting Labour this year, but will not vote if Turei is still in Greens and a potential Labour partner.




MikeB4
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  #1841191 8-Aug-2017 14:55
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Wiggum:

 

allio:

 

And Metiria didn't vote twice in the same election - where on earth did you get that from?

 

 

I misunderstood her election fraud crime then. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Back to topic. Is not liking the woman reason enough to want to see her fall? I don't like her, she has no idea what real poverty is. The woman got a taxpayer funded law degree for petes sake, this is while she was "pleading poverty". She continues to get a $180k salary also from taxpayers!

 

Little Miss piggy has had her snout in the trough for far too long. She needs to go.

 

allio:New topic - that's up to the moderators, but I think the current PM being guilty of the same "offence" as Metiria is sufficiently on point.

 

Actually the FUG says we need to keep to topic.

 

 

 

 

Can we keep this away from silly name calling


allio
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  #1841199 8-Aug-2017 15:06
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Pumpedd:

 

Her fraud is a crime as she confessed. Because its historic she will not be prosecuted, but this is quite different to Bill English.

 

 

 

She is leader of a political party and has confessed to two crimes, one of them fraud, and as such she should be removed from her caucus as would happen in Labour or National. It is disgusting. She has called for member resignations for things far less serious than this.

 

I was seriously thinking of voting Labour this year, but will not vote if Turei is still in Greens and a potential Labour partner.

 

 

Gosh, that's a precedent I'm not sure I'd want to get behind. Any MP who confesses to a minor crime in their past must immediately step down, while those who don't confess (even while there is clear evidence they are guilty of the same crime) are off the hook? Don't you think we should encourage honesty in our representatives?


Geektastic
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  #1841207 8-Aug-2017 15:20
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allio:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Her fraud is a crime as she confessed. Because its historic she will not be prosecuted, but this is quite different to Bill English.

 

 

 

She is leader of a political party and has confessed to two crimes, one of them fraud, and as such she should be removed from her caucus as would happen in Labour or National. It is disgusting. She has called for member resignations for things far less serious than this.

 

I was seriously thinking of voting Labour this year, but will not vote if Turei is still in Greens and a potential Labour partner.

 

 

Gosh, that's a precedent I'm not sure I'd want to get behind. Any MP who confesses to a minor crime in their past must immediately step down, while those who don't confess (even while there is clear evidence they are guilty of the same crime) are off the hook? Don't you think we should encourage honesty in our representatives?

 

 

 

 

Yes, but surely the sort of honesty we should encourage would be the sort where a person who committed fraud would never stand for parliament in the first place?






Pumpedd
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  #1841237 8-Aug-2017 15:49
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allio:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Her fraud is a crime as she confessed. Because its historic she will not be prosecuted, but this is quite different to Bill English.

 

 

 

She is leader of a political party and has confessed to two crimes, one of them fraud, and as such she should be removed from her caucus as would happen in Labour or National. It is disgusting. She has called for member resignations for things far less serious than this.

 

I was seriously thinking of voting Labour this year, but will not vote if Turei is still in Greens and a potential Labour partner.

 

 

Gosh, that's a precedent I'm not sure I'd want to get behind. Any MP who confesses to a minor crime in their past must immediately step down, while those who don't confess (even while there is clear evidence they are guilty of the same crime) are off the hook? Don't you think we should encourage honesty in our representatives?

 

 

FYI fraud is NOT a minor crime in the Country and it says a lot about you if you consider it to be. I am all for encouraging honesty prior to someone entering politics....not several years in. She could have kept her mouth shut and no one would be any the wiser, but chose to use her past crimes thinking it would actually increase her chances of becoming a Minister. Just the thought of a benefit fraudster being the Minister in charge of Benefits is utterly crazy. Her statements this afternoon show just how self serving she is.




Wiggum
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  #1841283 8-Aug-2017 16:32
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Geektastic:

 

Yes, but surely the sort of honesty we should encourage would be the sort where a person who committed fraud would never stand for parliament in the first place?

 

 

Don't they need to take an oath in parliament?

 

She would not have met the criteria to become a member of parliament if she had fessed up years ago. She went on to vote in parliament. 

 

It will be interesting to see which bills she has voted on over the years.

 

For a start, the Misuse of Drugs (Medicinal Cannabis) Amendment Bill, would not have seen the light of day.

 

 

allio
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  #1841299 8-Aug-2017 16:53
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Pumpedd:

 

 

 

FYI fraud is NOT a minor crime in the Country and it says a lot about you if you consider it to be. I am all for encouraging honesty prior to someone entering politics....not several years in. She could have kept her mouth shut and no one would be any the wiser, but chose to use her past crimes thinking it would actually increase her chances of becoming a Minister. Just the thought of a benefit fraudster being the Minister in charge of Benefits is utterly crazy. Her statements this afternoon show just how self serving she is.

 

 

My posts were about the "electoral fraud", which is a total non-issue.


DarthKermit
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  #1841315 8-Aug-2017 17:12
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Jesus, I wonder if anything more is gonna hit the fan for the Greens or her before the general election? undecided


Rikkitic
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  #1841317 8-Aug-2017 17:14
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Wiggum:

 

Geektastic:

 

Yes, but surely the sort of honesty we should encourage would be the sort where a person who committed fraud would never stand for parliament in the first place?

 

 

Don't they need to take an oath in parliament?

 

She would not have met the criteria to become a member of parliament if she had fessed up years ago. She went on to vote in parliament. 

 

It will be interesting to see which bills she has voted on over the years.

 

For a start, the Misuse of Drugs (Medicinal Cannabis) Amendment Bill, would not have seen the light of day.

 

 

 

 

 

As much as you might wish to find Metiria Turei in bed with the devil and burn her at the stake, any legislation she has been involved in is unlikely to be affected by her admission. In fact, her case isn’t even all that unique.

 

An actual minister (which she will never be) who committed fraud and went to prison for it, is Donna Awatere Huata, no Green party member, by the way. Another minister, Dover Samuels (also not a Green) wasn’t a fraudster as far as is known, but he had to resign because of other unsavoury matters that emerged from his past. Taito Philip Field was only a lowly MP (not Green), but he also went to prison for fraud.

 

What all of these sterling politicians have in common, is their involvement in lots of legislation, whether sponsoring or voting on. None of that was turned inside-out following their convictions and nothing Metiria Turei has been connected with will be affected either. You are just inventing things to keep fanning the flames of your outrage.

 

You might want to check out the Wikipedia page for New Zealand political scandals. There are more naughty politicians than you might think. Metiria Turei is small potatoes compared to those.

 

 

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


Sidestep
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  #1841354 8-Aug-2017 18:43
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Rikkitic:

 

 

 

As much as you might wish to find Metiria Turei in bed with the devil and burn her at the stake, any legislation she has been involved in is unlikely to be affected by her admission. In fact, her case isn’t even all that unique.

 

An actual minister (which she will never be) who committed fraud and went to prison for it, is Donna Awatere Huata, no Green party member, by the way. Another minister, Dover Samuels (also not a Green) wasn’t a fraudster as far as is known, but he had to resign because of other unsavoury matters that emerged from his past. Taito Philip Field was only a lowly MP (not Green), but he also went to prison for fraud.

 

What all of these sterling politicians have in common, is their involvement in lots of legislation, whether sponsoring or voting on. None of that was turned inside-out following their convictions and nothing Metiria Turei has been connected with will be affected either. You are just inventing things to keep fanning the flames of your outrage.

 

You might want to check out the Wikipedia page for New Zealand political scandals. There are more naughty politicians than you might think. Metiria Turei is small potatoes compared to those.

 

 

I think everyone's concentrating too much on the 'fraud' aspect of Metiria's announcement. Many people make mistakes when young.
We grow, learn, and thinking back regret we did that stuff - sometimes it makes us better people in the end.

Kennedy and David's Resignations are likely because they were old school environmentalists, strongly principled - and at least partly because Metiria's public lack of regret - and even celebration - of this fraud, points to her choosing sides in a philosophical divide that has long split the Greens.

They've always attracted a radical fringe element. A group yearning for revolution that'll leave a socialist utopia - somehow magically financially and ecologically sustainable - in it's wake. 
But the more practical 'centre left' environmentalists who think that 'green businesses' isn't a misnomer – more pragmatic, willing to work towards their goals from 'within the system' have generally run the place.

With Metiria's pivot the Greens have swung away from a true environmental party towards hard left social justice extremism - just as the whole world's realising Greens were right about the environment all along.

I'm not surprised at their resignations. Their older 'business positive' faces lent legitimacy to a party that along with it's core 'green' message promoted some pretty 'airy fairy' policies.

Kennedy commissioned ‘Net Zero' in New Zealand, organised a multi party group of MPs committed to climate action, and had been involved in creating New Zealand's climate change policy.
David was an entrepreneur who went on to teach sustainable development and politics, lectured at UNITEC - in fact started their program for resource management (and was also a solo parent).

They knew they'd be blamed by many in their party for fracturing it, fostering dissent - and for any drop in the polls before the election, but they're long term Greens - David's been there since it was formed from the remains of the Values party in 1990 - and I think they can see the party loosing their way with this.


Pumpedd
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  #1841358 8-Aug-2017 18:48
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allio:

 

Pumpedd:

 

 

 

FYI fraud is NOT a minor crime in the Country and it says a lot about you if you consider it to be. I am all for encouraging honesty prior to someone entering politics....not several years in. She could have kept her mouth shut and no one would be any the wiser, but chose to use her past crimes thinking it would actually increase her chances of becoming a Minister. Just the thought of a benefit fraudster being the Minister in charge of Benefits is utterly crazy. Her statements this afternoon show just how self serving she is.

 

 

My posts were about the "electoral fraud", which is a total non-issue.

 

 

 

 

I dont care what fraud it was/is....it is still fraud.

 

 

What is astonishing is that at the time Turei was lying to MSD and lying to the Registrar of Electors, she was studying to be a lawyer. She obviously missed the classes on legal ethics.

 

Its fine if she wants to leave parliament to start a different career, but she cannot stay in Parliament. Many many others have been forced to leave for lesser charges.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


MikeB4
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  #1842962 9-Aug-2017 17:15
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Ms Turei quits as leader, now this is  one more step to take. Resign from the House.


DarthKermit
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  #1842979 9-Aug-2017 18:07
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Too little, too late to save the Greens methinks. How could she not see this as the inevitable outcome?


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