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14452 posts

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  # 1840794 7-Aug-2017 20:50
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Maybe it's time for someone to start a new Green values party.





Mike
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There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1840807 7-Aug-2017 21:10
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Rikkitic:

DarthKermit:



Two Green MPs quit after co-leader Metiria Turei refused to resign after she admitted lying to obtain a benefit.


Kennedy Graham and David Clendon made the threat to quit in protest on Monday afternoon. It is understood their resignations were accepted.


The pair are two of the longest serving members of the Green Party.



Good on them. It's nice to see MPs with such integrity. Just a pity they won't be around to continue to lead by example. There are some in other parties who could also use a little moral guidance.


 



To it's eternal shame, the Green Party's General Manager has immediately jumped in to denigrate these principled individuals.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95542553/Two-Green-MPs-quit-over-Metiria-Turei-admissions

Green Party general manager Sarah Helm said the pair had done very little in the way of campaigning, and suggested they had been disgruntled for some time.

"Neither of these candidates have been campaigning for us all year. David's made one phone call, and Kennedy's put in about three or four hours worth of calls.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1840826 7-Aug-2017 22:04
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James Shaw's media address was nothing short of disgraceful. I agree with David Clendon and Kennedy Graham -- you can run a line that Turei shouldn't be basically destroyed for what initially appeared to be a stupid, youthful mistake (committing benefit fraud). But when you add to that her piecemeal disclosure of relevant facts (like having her mother staying with her whilst committing the fraud) and her deliberate electoral fraud, a spectre that this is someone who systematically believes herself to be above the law and continues to be above it, is nigh-on inevitable. 

 

I was seriously thinking about voting for the Greens. Now I'll most likely abstain or even *holding my nose* consider voting for National. The latter may still be a bridge too far -- this is a party that has Judith Collins and Paul Bennett in it. 


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  # 1840858 7-Aug-2017 23:57
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dejadeadnz:

 

James Shaw's media address was nothing short of disgraceful. I agree with David Clendon and Kennedy Graham -- you can run a line that Turei shouldn't be basically destroyed for what initially appeared to be a stupid, youthful mistake (committing benefit fraud). But when you add to that her piecemeal disclosure of relevant facts (like having her mother staying with her whilst committing the fraud) and her deliberate electoral fraud, a spectre that this is someone who systematically believes herself to be above the law and continues to be above it, is nigh-on inevitable. 

 

 

Wow, I think we found something we can agree on. The entire thing stinks and I can't believe the Greens Leader wouldn't have simply understood how bad it was and moved her on. The fact he is defending her makes me feel slightly ill. 

 

The complete lack of judgment from the top echelon of the Greens and also Labour by extension shows that really, there is a lot to be concerned about. I'd have had more respect for JA if her first order of business was to say to the two leaders of the Greens... "Here is the MOU, and unless you want it torn up, she has to go".

 

The issue for Labour is, they need the MOU more than the Greens do I think. Labour can't win without the Greens, but the Greens will go into Parliment pretty much with the support they have now or slightly less.

 

 

 

 


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  # 1840892 8-Aug-2017 08:44
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I think it comes down to the greens essentially been "anti-establishment" with roots heavily based in protesting the cause du jour.

 

They are rallying their protest based supporters behind her, she was sticking it to the system etc etc etc. Unfortunately, for them they have picked the wrong battle, or possibly the wrong warrior to stand behind.


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  # 1840893 8-Aug-2017 08:45
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Right now I don't know who is worse, James Shaw or Metiria.

 

Well done James Shaw for throwing those long term MP's under the bus.

 

Even if Metiria had to step down now its too late. James should go too.


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  # 1840898 8-Aug-2017 08:54
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The way this is being handled is very unfortunate. I think Metiria Turei should go. Maybe not for the reasons most people do, but because her continued presence is creating too much of a distraction from more important issues. She wanted this to be about the shameful treatment of the most disadvantaged in society. Instead it has become all about her. That is not entirely her fault. The more rabid members of the howling mob only want to tear at her character. They could care less about the important message she was trying to convey.

 

But the Greens as a whole seem to be determined to shoot themselves in the foot, and I find that regrettable. In spite of what some may think, the Green voice in our society is an important and essential one, regardless of who may be in government. Their disarray over this issue is not something to be celebrated.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1840904 8-Aug-2017 09:03
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It's hard to tell what the electoral affect on the Green Party all this will be, there hasn't been a poll published since the first confessional. Logic would say that they will cash and burn but when has logic had anything to do with politics and the fickle whims of the electorate. It would not surprise me if the Green support has risen to circa 20%.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1840907 8-Aug-2017 09:06
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MikeB4:

 

It's hard to tell what the electoral affect on the Green Party all this will be, there hasn't been a poll published since the first confessional. Logic would say that they will cash and burn but when has logic had anything to do with politics and the fickle whims of the electorate. It would not surprise me if the Green support has risen to circa 20%.

 

 

I don't agree, those extra votes need to come from somewhere. Who are the losers? I don't see them gaining any support from the right.


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  # 1840908 8-Aug-2017 09:06
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networkn:

 

dejadeadnz:

 

James Shaw's media address was nothing short of disgraceful. I agree with David Clendon and Kennedy Graham -- you can run a line that Turei shouldn't be basically destroyed for what initially appeared to be a stupid, youthful mistake (committing benefit fraud). But when you add to that her piecemeal disclosure of relevant facts (like having her mother staying with her whilst committing the fraud) and her deliberate electoral fraud, a spectre that this is someone who systematically believes herself to be above the law and continues to be above it, is nigh-on inevitable. 

 

 

Wow, I think we found something we can agree on. The entire thing stinks and I can't believe the Greens Leader wouldn't have simply understood how bad it was and moved her on. The fact he is defending her makes me feel slightly ill. 

 

The complete lack of judgment from the top echelon of the Greens and also Labour by extension shows that really, there is a lot to be concerned about. I'd have had more respect for JA if her first order of business was to say to the two leaders of the Greens... "Here is the MOU, and unless you want it torn up, she has to go".

 

The issue for Labour is, they need the MOU more than the Greens do I think. Labour can't win without the Greens, but the Greens will go into Parliment pretty much with the support they have now or slightly less.

 

 

 

 

 

 

JA cant do that. The Greens are Labour, its the same party, they just fragmented away years ago. They need the alternate Labour party pure and simple. JA has said the Turei wont be given a post, thats a good statement, she has been pushed aside.  She cant tell them to oust her, but they should oust her. The benefit admission was a ploy, and it worked. Electoral fraud is too much, she must go, and the Greens should take a leaf, do the right thing, remove her, get a solid mover and shaker in and hope they can pull that off as Labour seems to have done. Green voters who are miffed would probably vote Labour, so that wont have any effect on election night

 

The Greens should spend more time being Greens, not Reds


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  # 1840911 8-Aug-2017 09:08
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tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

dejadeadnz:

 

James Shaw's media address was nothing short of disgraceful. I agree with David Clendon and Kennedy Graham -- you can run a line that Turei shouldn't be basically destroyed for what initially appeared to be a stupid, youthful mistake (committing benefit fraud). But when you add to that her piecemeal disclosure of relevant facts (like having her mother staying with her whilst committing the fraud) and her deliberate electoral fraud, a spectre that this is someone who systematically believes herself to be above the law and continues to be above it, is nigh-on inevitable. 

 

 

Wow, I think we found something we can agree on. The entire thing stinks and I can't believe the Greens Leader wouldn't have simply understood how bad it was and moved her on. The fact he is defending her makes me feel slightly ill. 

 

The complete lack of judgment from the top echelon of the Greens and also Labour by extension shows that really, there is a lot to be concerned about. I'd have had more respect for JA if her first order of business was to say to the two leaders of the Greens... "Here is the MOU, and unless you want it torn up, she has to go".

 

The issue for Labour is, they need the MOU more than the Greens do I think. Labour can't win without the Greens, but the Greens will go into Parliment pretty much with the support they have now or slightly less.

 

 

 

 

 

 

JA cant do that. The Greens are Labour, its the same party, they just fragmented away years ago. They need the alternate Labour party pure and simple. JA has said the Turei wont be given a post, thats a good statement, she has been pushed aside.  She cant tell them to oust her, but they should oust her. The benefit admission was a ploy, and it worked. Electoral fraud is too much, she must go, and the Greens should take a leaf, do the right thing, remove her, get a solid mover and shaker in and hope they can pull that off as Labour seems to have done. Green voters who are miffed would probably vote Labour, so that wont have any effect on election night

 

The Greens should spend more time being Greens, not Reds

 

 

 

 

Not really, the Green Party grew out of the Values Party. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1840919 8-Aug-2017 09:15
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networkn:

 

dejadeadnz:

 

James Shaw's media address was nothing short of disgraceful. I agree with David Clendon and Kennedy Graham -- you can run a line that Turei shouldn't be basically destroyed for what initially appeared to be a stupid, youthful mistake (committing benefit fraud). But when you add to that her piecemeal disclosure of relevant facts (like having her mother staying with her whilst committing the fraud) and her deliberate electoral fraud, a spectre that this is someone who systematically believes herself to be above the law and continues to be above it, is nigh-on inevitable. 

 

 

Wow, I think we found something we can agree on. The entire thing stinks and I can't believe the Greens Leader wouldn't have simply understood how bad it was and moved her on. The fact he is defending her makes me feel slightly ill. 

 

The complete lack of judgment from the top echelon of the Greens and also Labour by extension shows that really, there is a lot to be concerned about. I'd have had more respect for JA if her first order of business was to say to the two leaders of the Greens... "Here is the MOU, and unless you want it torn up, she has to go".

 

The issue for Labour is, they need the MOU more than the Greens do I think. Labour can't win without the Greens, but the Greens will go into Parliment pretty much with the support they have now or slightly less.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and people would seriously vote for these people to be in Government....wow..just wow...


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  # 1840922 8-Aug-2017 09:19
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tdgeek:

 

Electoral fraud is too much, she must go, and the Greens should take a leaf, do the right thing, remove her, get a solid mover and shaker in and hope they can pull that off as Labour seems to have done. Green voters who are miffed would probably vote Labour, so that wont have any effect on election night

 

 

I read somewhere that she can't be removed. She has to resign. Not sure if thats true?


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  # 1840925 8-Aug-2017 09:21
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MikeB4:

 

 

 

 

 

Not really, the Green Party grew out of the Values Party. 

 

 

Ok, but they all were Labour in one party, they just fragmented. Labour and The Greens are to me, Labour A and Labour B. The benefit is Labour B is where the lefties are, and thats good, as they can be left out of Ministries should Labour win an election, keeping it mainly a centre party, left leaning


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  # 1840926 8-Aug-2017 09:23
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

Electoral fraud is too much, she must go, and the Greens should take a leaf, do the right thing, remove her, get a solid mover and shaker in and hope they can pull that off as Labour seems to have done. Green voters who are miffed would probably vote Labour, so that wont have any effect on election night

 

 

I read somewhere that she can't be removed. She has to resign. Not sure if thats true?

 

 

No idea. But surely not, thats too much power


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