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  Reply # 1836879 3-Aug-2017 22:15
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as someone who has experienced discrimination it humiliates and hurts a lot.





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  Reply # 1836882 3-Aug-2017 22:20
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networkn:

 

Rikkitic:

 

DaveB:

 

"Demeaned because they bear children"? I have not seen your suggestion in the replies so far. What I do see is a relevant question of whether it is possible to fulfill a promised role (based on voter response) as 24 hour a day Leader of the Country as against a part time mother and part time leader. We are told time and time again that a role as "mother" (every child deserves a fulltime mother) is a 24 hour a day role!

 

 

Go ask John Key why he didn't fulfil his implied promise to serve out the term he was elected for. Instead his voters have been served up a warmed-over Bill English. This issue has absolutely nothing to do with being female.

 

 

 

 

I was surprised when it happened, however, I did recall him saying earlier, before the last election that it would probably be his last. You have a very dim view of him handing off the leadership to someone else prior to the election, to give voters a chance to see what the new leadership looked like and how they coped. He isn't the most exciting guy in the world but he has an excellent grasp on policy, is well spoken, calm and has experience in finance and politics in general. I think he is a fine leader. 

 

 

 

I have no issue with Key stepping down only 9 months from the election. I don't feel short changed. He led for nearly 9 years, through some of the most challenging times NZ has faced in it's history. He worked a lot of LONG hours and didn't get to spend anywhere near the amount of time he might otherwise have opted to, as a result of unexpected things. It takes a toll. His children were adults for at least some of those years, I can't imagine trying to do it with an infant or toddler. 

 

 

 

Sorry you feel differently. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey come on now, he could have waited until it was nearly an election and then quit within the time limit that ensured no one but the caucus could vote on the new leader. Oh - sorry - wrong party....!






 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1836884 3-Aug-2017 22:23
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networkn:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I'm not sure I do feel differently. What I feel is that this applies to everyone across the board and Jacinda Ardern should not be seen any differently. Maybe she will also serve 9 years as PM and then decide to have a child in spite of her age then. No-one questioned Key at the time about his intention or ability to serve out his term and no-one should do that to her. It shouldn't be an issue at all. That is the only point I am trying to make.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do you know No-one did ? 

 

 

 

 

If they did - you can be absolutely assured it wasn't with the blatant misogynous intensity that has ensued over the past couple of days about Jacinda Ardern..

 

Note that's mainly from anonymous trolls on internet forums and "comments" sections on news websites - most journalists seem to have been able to pull their heads in and behave themselves.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1836885 3-Aug-2017 22:31
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 

Hey come on now, he could have waited until it was nearly an election and then quit within the time limit that ensured no one but the caucus could vote on the new leader. Oh - sorry - wrong party....!

 

 

In the case of National, they replaced a popular and enthusiastic leader with a tired old bore.

 

In the case of Labour, they replaced a tired old bore with someone enthusiastic who does seem to have what it takes to become popular.

 

Nothing stopping National from replacing their leader now - if they so choose,  There seems to have been some complacency with putting Bill E into the leadership role "he's a steady set of hands" - as if John Key had solved all of NZ's present issues.  That attitude IMO was a serious mistake.


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  Reply # 1836984 4-Aug-2017 09:15
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Fred99:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 

Hey come on now, he could have waited until it was nearly an election and then quit within the time limit that ensured no one but the caucus could vote on the new leader. Oh - sorry - wrong party....!

 

 

In the case of National, they replaced a popular and enthusiastic leader with a tired old bore.

 

In the case of Labour, they replaced a tired old bore with someone enthusiastic who does seem to have what it takes to become popular.

 

Nothing stopping National from replacing their leader now - if they so choose,  There seems to have been some complacency with putting Bill E into the leadership role "he's a steady set of hands" - as if John Key had solved all of NZ's present issues.  That attitude IMO was a serious mistake.

 

 

 

 

I suppose it comes down to whether you vote in a political version of The Batchelor or an election where you evaluate the party best placed to keep the economy at large going in the right direction, led by people with real world experience etc. regardless of the photogenic qualities of the person in charge.






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  Reply # 1836986 4-Aug-2017 09:23
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Yep, a real vibrant economy with people sleeping on the streets and living in their cars and mental health services in a state of collapse and people dying from synthetic weed while the Dear Leader insists there is nothing to see here so everything will just carry on as before. Steady hands, real world experience, right direction, hallelujah praise the catholic lord!

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1836988 4-Aug-2017 09:26
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Geektastic:

 

Fred99:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 

Hey come on now, he could have waited until it was nearly an election and then quit within the time limit that ensured no one but the caucus could vote on the new leader. Oh - sorry - wrong party....!

 

 

In the case of National, they replaced a popular and enthusiastic leader with a tired old bore.

 

In the case of Labour, they replaced a tired old bore with someone enthusiastic who does seem to have what it takes to become popular.

 

Nothing stopping National from replacing their leader now - if they so choose,  There seems to have been some complacency with putting Bill E into the leadership role "he's a steady set of hands" - as if John Key had solved all of NZ's present issues.  That attitude IMO was a serious mistake.

 

 

 

 

I suppose it comes down to whether you vote in a political version of The Batchelor or an election where you evaluate the party best placed to keep the economy at large going in the right direction, led by people with real world experience etc. regardless of the photogenic qualities of the person in charge.

 

 

Heh, yeah, I love it when people call people an old bore, and then rail against people who would criticize JA for being 'too young' or 'too inexperienced'

 

I'd take old and boring with a good grasp of what it takes to run a country, a proven track record of steering NZ through difficult times, every day of the week and twice on Sundays. 

 

For the record, I am not suggesting National has solved all of NZ's issues or dealt with every issue perfectly. (Just before the usual suspects jump down my throat).


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  Reply # 1836997 4-Aug-2017 09:37
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Rikkitic:

 

Yep, a real vibrant economy with people sleeping on the streets and living in their cars and mental health services in a state of collapse and people dying from synthetic weed while the Dear Leader insists there is nothing to see here so everything will just carry on as before. Steady hands, real world experience, right direction, hallelujah praise the catholic lord!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, those things exist in every economy regardless of how well it's going. There is room for improvement, and perhaps if quakes didn't keep needing us to spend BILLIONS on rebuilds, and other such things, there would be some more money to throw at these problems. 

 

They aren't doing perfectly, there is always room for improvement, do you not believe that to be true regardless of who's in power. Everything is balance, if they concentrate on those things, other things will get less attention, or do you think it's possible to solve all issues immediately and simultaneously?

 

Synthetic weed is a tragic thing, but it's killed 10 people in the past 30 days (I don't' recall the exact numbers) there are many other things that kill many more people every day. People choose to take drugs, it's a risk you take when you ingest things you probably shouldn't, that you might have an adverse reaction. It's tragic for the families and friends who have lost someone, I can't imagine it, however, should we divert significant resources to it, over something else?

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1837007 4-Aug-2017 09:59
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networkn:

 

There is room for improvement, and perhaps if quakes didn't keep needing us to spend BILLIONS on rebuilds, and other such things, there would be some more money to throw at these problems. 

 

 

 

 

As far as the Chch quakes go - EQC reserves are not money from the government account, but were always added in and presented as "cost to the government".

 

Close to $50 billion - came to the county from overseas insurers / reinsurers for the rebuild.

 

Even if you just look at the GST collected on the additional economic activity generated by the rebuild, it exceeds government payments for bailing out AMI, topping up EQC, red-zone land buyouts, and government funded projects.

 

The government also collect tax revenue on the additional income - that income substantially paid for by overseas based insurers.

 

The several years of lies perpetuated by the present government over the supposed cost to the "long suffering taxpayer" of the Chch quakes is something I'll never forgive them for.

 

It was a positive for the economy - not a negative.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1837020 4-Aug-2017 10:06
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networkn:

 

 

 

Synthetic weed is a tragic thing, but it's killed 10 people in the past 30 days (I don't' recall the exact numbers) there are many other things that kill many more people every day.

 

 

Yeah - I guess if you were waiting 9 months for cancer surgery which was supposed to be carried out within 30 days - but can't be due to lack of funding (by a government talking about more tax cuts for people who probably have private health insurance anyway), you may be less concerned about things like failure of expensive and stupid criminal laws - instead of a health-based approach to substance abuse.

 

 


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  Reply # 1837023 4-Aug-2017 10:08
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Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

There is room for improvement, and perhaps if quakes didn't keep needing us to spend BILLIONS on rebuilds, and other such things, there would be some more money to throw at these problems. 

 

 

 

 

As far as the Chch quakes go - EQC reserves are not money from the government account, but were always added in and presented as "cost to the government".

 

Close to $50 billion - came to the county from overseas insurers / reinsurers for the rebuild.

 

Even if you just look at the GST collected on the additional economic activity generated by the rebuild, it exceeds government payments for bailing out AMI, topping up EQC, red-zone land buyouts, and government funded projects.

 

The government also collect tax revenue on the additional income - that income substantially paid for by overseas based insurers.

 

The several years of lies perpetuated by the present government over the supposed cost to the "long suffering taxpayer" of the Chch quakes is something I'll never forgive them for.

 

It was a positive for the economy - not a negative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to see some proof of your claims, last I had heard it had cost $11B or thereabouts and I'd be keen to see where we have an $11 Billion dollar increase in our tax take directly resulted in the CHCH quakes. 

 

Even not taking into account the money, huge Government resources including senior ministers time, etc was all spent on that, and the Kaikoura Quake and that is time that isn't available for other issues. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1837032 4-Aug-2017 10:16
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networkn:

 

Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

There is room for improvement, and perhaps if quakes didn't keep needing us to spend BILLIONS on rebuilds, and other such things, there would be some more money to throw at these problems. 

 

 

 

 

As far as the Chch quakes go - EQC reserves are not money from the government account, but were always added in and presented as "cost to the government".

 

Close to $50 billion - came to the county from overseas insurers / reinsurers for the rebuild.

 

Even if you just look at the GST collected on the additional economic activity generated by the rebuild, it exceeds government payments for bailing out AMI, topping up EQC, red-zone land buyouts, and government funded projects.

 

The government also collect tax revenue on the additional income - that income substantially paid for by overseas based insurers.

 

The several years of lies perpetuated by the present government over the supposed cost to the "long suffering taxpayer" of the Chch quakes is something I'll never forgive them for.

 

It was a positive for the economy - not a negative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to see some proof of your claims, last I had heard it had cost $11B or thereabouts and I'd be keen to see where we have an $11 Billion dollar increase in our tax take directly resulted in the CHCH quakes. 

 

Even not taking into account the money, huge Government resources including senior ministers time, etc was all spent on that, and the Kaikoura Quake and that is time that isn't available for other issues. 

 

 

 

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/70084887/How-much-is-the-Government-really-spending-to-fix-Christchurch

 

 

The EQC is its own intricate story, says Preston.

 

It's total liability has been projected at $12b. Some $4b of this will be covered by its reinsurance treaties. Then the $8b showing up on the Crown's balance sheet is a combination of the EQC's $6b natural disaster fund – its pool of savings, which is now going to be completely drained – plus a further $2b shortfall that the Crown, as the EQC's ultimate backer, may have to pay once all the EQC's own money is gone.

 

 


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  Reply # 1837037 4-Aug-2017 10:26
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Rikkitic:

 

Yep, a real vibrant economy with people sleeping on the streets and living in their cars and mental health services in a state of collapse and people dying from synthetic weed while the Dear Leader insists there is nothing to see here so everything will just carry on as before. Steady hands, real world experience, right direction, hallelujah praise the catholic lord!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At the end of the day, those things are, regrettably but necessarily, less important than the economy as a whole. Without a sound economy, there will be no funds to pay to fix any of those things, ever.






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  Reply # 1837074 4-Aug-2017 11:34
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Geektastic: 

 

At the end of the day, those things are, regrettably but necessarily, less important than the economy as a whole. Without a sound economy, there will be no funds to pay to fix any of those things, ever.

 

 

How a sound economy is defined has a lot to do with priorities. Some would say that turning a blind eye to drug problems and underfunding the police actually undermines a healthy economy as it allows crime and deprivation to flourish. Eventually this comes back to bite the privileged elite.

 

 





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  Reply # 1837091 4-Aug-2017 11:49
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Rikkitic:

 

Geektastic: 

 

At the end of the day, those things are, regrettably but necessarily, less important than the economy as a whole. Without a sound economy, there will be no funds to pay to fix any of those things, ever.

 

 

How a sound economy is defined has a lot to do with priorities. Some would say that turning a blind eye to drug problems and underfunding the police actually undermines a healthy economy as it allows crime and deprivation to flourish. Eventually this comes back to bite the privileged elite.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think you are addressing a sound economy, you are complaining about how the money generated by said sound economy is spent, which you disagree with. 

 

Potentially I feel that NZ doesn't NEED a surplus, or at least I'd be happy if the surplus was minimal and more money was spent on other things, though I doubt you and I would agree as to what money and how much, should go where. I don't need, nor want a tax cut, again better spent in healthcare and education so long as it's done efficiently. Throwing a lot of money at a problem isn't a fix, big systems like Healthcare and Education can swallow hundreds of millions and achieve little.

 

I am all for SUPPORTING those who are less fortunate than myself, and I started my life as one of those people, so I do have a pretty reasonable understanding of it and how it feels etc, but it should be support provided whilst people are doing things to help themselves. 

 

I don't agree that we have poverty in NZ the way it measures in other countries, but I do feel there is a gap between the wealthy and poor. It's not an easy problem to solve, however, and it wasn't solved by 9 years of Labour either, nor would I expect it to materially improve under a Labour Government

 

other than normal cyclical variations.

 

I don't believe Labours policies to be stable, clear or sustainable, and I believe the mess the party has been in for the past 10 years will not magically go away if by some misfortune they are elected. I expect them to take a long time to get organized and to understand the current situation, all of which time, nothing significant will be done in NZ to improve things. There will be few policies passed which make headlines because they will need that to show they are doing something, but I don't think beyond slogans and catch phrases they have much to go on with. That was mirrored by my recent conversation with a Labour MP who couldn't outline 1 specific change of any policies he was catch phrasing.

 

I don't think National are perfect, there are a fair number of things I disagree with them doing. But they are also doing some good things. 

 

 

 

 


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